Detroit auto makers try some new tricks

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No it isn't. The Sebring coupe was, but it's not made any more. The Sebring now is a 4-door sedan, the JS body. The Cirrus name disappeared with the previous model, the JR. The Stratus is also gone; now the 4-door Dodge is the Avenger (which at one time was the Dodge version of the 2-door Sebring coupe).
So Cirrus sedan (JA) --> Sebring sedan (JR) --> Sebring sedan (JS) Sebring coupe (FJ) --> Sebring coupe (ST) --> gone Sebring convertible (JX) --> Sebring convertible (JR) --> Sebring convertible (JS)
Stratus sedan (JA) --> Stratus sedan (JR) --> Avenger sedan (JS) Avenger coupe (FJ) --> Stratus coupe (ST) --> gone
And BTW, the Sebring and Avenger coupes were made in the US.

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wrote:

I guess I'm fortunate here re Chrysler dealerships. We have many dealerships of all flags and our Chrysler dealers are first class. I've dealt with most of them since the early 80s.
Unfortunately our GM dealerships always turn me off with a terrible marketing approach, so I haven't purchased a GM vehicle since the 70s, even though I once was a GM buyer.
The Ford dealership nearest me, which I would deal with, is also a bit scummy on marketing. I wonder how many years they have been forced to have their weekly "bank forced" sale at "less than cost". Such crap, I certainly wouldn't trust them after reading their ads.
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wrote:

Normally, the transmission is considered part of the powertrain.

Wheel bearings are generally not considered part of the powertrain for warranty purposes.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
  Click to see the full signature.
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Some O wrote:

I'd go further and say that "initial quality" is utterly meaningless. It just tells if the car is prettily assembled, and whether or not it rattles. So what? A car can rattle but not fail for half a million miles. It can also have crooked door seams, but who cares so long as the engine tolerances are superb.
As far as first-year model buying, it helps to know some of the history of the company and its design process and other products. A "new drivetrain" that is actually based on an older engine design usually carries almost no risk. One of the best vehicles I've ever owned is my wife's 1993 (first year) LH with a 3.5L (first year) engine. But the 3.5 is based on the 3.3/3.8 block which was designed by Bill Weertman's (designer of the slant-6, LA series v8, and B/RB series big-block) group back before he retired, so its been utterly bulletproof for 244,000 miles and still going.
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Compared to what? I drive one daily and don't find it to be a problem. It is much better than my Nissan Frontier or my SO's RAV4 but not as good as my old F150 or the Expedition I used to drive. I'd rate it as equivalent to my Sister 4 Door Civic, except the Fusion has bigger/better mirrors.
Ed
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"jor" Some O :

thing, too. But he likes it, so that's what counts.
Natalie
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I've read it was Volvo who had a big part in the Fusion platform (Volvo 70) and the upgrading of Ford's 3.0L V6. Mazda uses same in the Mazda 6.
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Just Facts wrote:

No, the Fusion is a shared platform with Mazda (40 percent of which is owned by Ford). The Ford 500 is the one that shares a platform with Volvo (which is wholly owned by Ford). Ford also owns Jaguar and several other "foreign" brands now.
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Well, Land Rover; hardly "several." They just sold a controlling interest in Aston-Martin, and that's it. The "foreign" brands are Fords, not like GM with Opel, Vauxhall, and Holden -- different brands than in the US,
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Lloyd wrote:

That sentence doesn't make any sense. Opel, Vauxhall, and Holden have *always* been GM, they're not foreign makes that GM has bought. Saab, on the other hand, is now a GM product but was once an independent company, just as Volvo and Jaguar are now Ford products.
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Actually GM did buy all those companies. They bought part of Opel in 1929, the rest in 1931. They bought Vauxhall in 1925. Holden was purchased in 1931. GM has purchased many brands over the years. In fact, GM mostly grew by purchasing other companies until the mid 1930s. Saab was a relatively late addition, being purchased in 1990.
Regards,
Ed White
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C. E. White wrote:

Yeah, and Chrysler bought Dodge Brothers and Maxwell (which became Plymouth) back then too. But pre-war buys don't count... ;-)
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Oh, well you didn't say that.
Ed
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GM bought Buick in 1905, then Cadillac, Oldmobile, and Oakland and GMC truck before 1910. Chevy bought GM in 1915! What was the ORIGINAL name of the Cadillac Motor Company?
Dodge Brothers built bodies for Mr Ford until 1915. Didn't Maxwell become Chrysler? I thought Mr Chrysler rebuilt Maxwell in 1924 and couldn't get a shot at the Auto Show in NY that year if I remember right and then Plymouth came out in 1928 or thereabouts.
Then there's Ford, which purchased Lincoln, which oddly enough was started by the guy who purchased the Henry Ford Motor Company in 1902. Then they started Mercury in 1938 or thereabouts.
Charles of Schaumburg
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The two dodge Brother were partners with Henry Ford until they were forced out by Henry in the late twenties and the Ford family became the only owners. After which they made their own car, aptly named "Dodge Brothers." I own a 1932 straight six "Dodge Brothers" seven passenger sedan at one time that has jump seats that pulled out from the back of the front seats ;)
mike

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I think you might actually be wrong about the date. Try 1914 for the year the Dodges got forced out. Did you ever notice what their very first corporate emblem was? That's right, the Mogen David. And guess who was a big hater of Jews? That's right, ol' Henry himself.
Charles of Schaumburg
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n5hsr wrote:

More than that, Horace Dodge *designed* the Ford engines as well as building engines and other components for Ford.

Walter P. Chrysler was an executive at one of the GM divisions (Buick, I think, memory's vague) before setting off to assimilate his own car company. He bought Maxwell and Dodge Brothers, and your timeline is probably right, I just don't remember my Chrysler history that precisely. It may not be fair to say that Maxwell "became" Plymouth, but in fact that's more or less what happened. Maxwell had built a solid, unglamorous every-man's car, and that's what the Plymouth division produced as well. The Chrysler nameplate was the higher end of the line, competing with Cadillac, Olds, Buick, and Lincoln. DeSoto and Imperial completed the Chrysler lineup that lasted into the early 60s. DeSoto was a nameplate that was fabricated purely for marketing, having no "ancestry" in any other car company besides Chrysler. Imperial was originally to be a competitor to the really high-end makes like Duesenberg, Pierce-Arrow, etc. and specialized in building powerful engines and heavy chassis that were sent to custom coach-builders (like LeBaron) for bodywork to suit the customer.
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The story I've heard is Durant, who put together GM, lost control to bankers on the board of directors. So he teamed up with Louis Chevrolet to found Chevrolet, bought GM stock with the profits, and strode into a GM board meeting one year and announced, "Gentlemen, I control this company."

Basically.
Chrysler wanted to buy Dodge from the widows after the Dodge Bros. died, but didn't know if the deal would go through, so he introduced DeSoto. When he got Dodge, the 2 brands were close to each other, and even swapped places at least once in the pecking order.
Interesting trivia (to me at least): the first year it was out, Valiant was a separate make, not a Plymouth.

Yes, to compete with Ford and Chevy.

And of course, Nash and Hudson became AMC, which was bought out by Renault, which then was bought by Chrysler and cars sold as Eagles.
And Jeep, which was Willys, then sold to Kaiser, then to AMC, then became owned by Renault when they bought AMC, and then Chrysler.
And don't even mention poor ol' Studebaker.

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Lloyd wrote:

And Imperial has been both a stand-alone brand and a model within the Chrysler line at various times.

Merged with Packard, but it was too little too late for both of them.
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Ya didn't answer this question. The original name of the Cadillac Motor Company was the Henry Ford Motor Company, until it was bought out by Mr Leland in 1902. The current Ford Motor Company didn't exist until 1903. Basically Mr Leland built Cadillacs until Mr Durant forced him out. Then he started building Lincolns, until Henry Ford bought him out somewhere around 1921.

Then there's Auburn, Duesenburg and Cord.
There's a story that the non-Ford manufacturers got together about 1923 and wondered what happened when Henry Ford gathered the people that made the other 50% of the cars (i.e. himself.)

Charles of Schaumburg
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