Detroit auto makers try some new tricks

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'93 3/4 ton Chevy pickup, 6.5L turbodiesel, 232,000 miles. One starter, and a cruise control servo went out. 1979, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, 1970 Datsun, that I maintained very well, mind you, spun a crank bearing and left me out in the desert a long way from home. Datsun Land Cruiser, broke the front differentrial U-joing, lost control of steering and damn near got me killed a year later still in Jeddah. 1985 Chevrolet 1/2 ton pickiup, 6.2 diesel that I put a Banks turbo on and drove hard. Had 228,000 on it after I gave it to my oldest son and would still be running today, I imagine, if he hadn't totaled it. Crushed the shit out of it in the rollover, but he didn't have a scratch on him. The abolute worst cars I've ever owned were Japanese. And the longest lived with the least amount of trouble were American. Did have a very reliable German motorcycle, though.
Garrett Fulton
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wrote:

My brother in law kept "helping" his sister by buying "good" imports for her. She spent a fortune keeping them running. I told her to sell that Toyota trash and got her a AMC Concord at the State Auction for $800. (yeah this was a few years ago!!) We put a couple hundred in that Concord to bring it up to snuff and then she drove it for the next two years and didn't put another penny in it. Then sold it for $900.
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"Ashton Crusher" "gfulton" >

OK, even *I* remember when Japanese cars were called "crapanese" or "Jap-crap" - but unlike domestic automakers, they straightened up their act and gave the people what they wanted. Yes, Japanese vehicles sometimes have *big* problems - the difference is what they *do* about it. I can forgive a company making mistakes, but I'm wary of them when they clearly don't care about my concerns regarding my vehicle. Toyota has recalled my 2000 Echo twice - each time before I noticed a problem myself (One for the brakes, the other for the floor boards). Further, they nagged me until I took the car back in. *THAT* is customer service.
Natalie
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Ever heard of "Ja-fakes"? some people sell fake Made in Japan autoparts, which have same packaging and labels.

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"EdV" ..

Nope, never heard of that. How do they pull that off?
Natalie

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On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:45:20 -0400, "Wickeddoll"

Sometimes I wonder if it's as much a dealer problem as an automaker problem. We've had American cars by the hundreds in our fleet since forever. After about the mid-seventies we really have never had any problems with them. I've had numerous American cars over the years that I put well over 100K on and all any of them needed was the normal routine maintenance. That's not to suggest no one ever had a problem, there will always be some cars that something breaks on but it's really quite rare.
In my personal car experience, I've had some experiences at dealers that would make me not want to buy again if I had to depend on that dealer.
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"Ashton Crusher" "Wickeddoll"

But the recalls came from Toyota directly, not the dealerships. How did your vehicles perform at over 200 k, as Toyotas typically go? Our old Celica had 280-something k on it when we *drove* it to the junkyard because it was rusted out. Also, domestic large vehicles are apparently much better than the "economy" ones. That's where I've heard the most complaints; that domestic economy cars are no bargain. So I have high hopes for the Fusion and a few other domestics that are out now.

I've heard that complaint from several folks regarding Toyotas, too. We had a really bad experience at the Autofair in New Hampshire. They treated us like shit, but since they were not the first dealer we've ever dealt with, we knew it was *them* and not the vehicle.
Natalie
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On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 07:58:13 -0400, "Wickeddoll"

We have many vehicles that go over 200K. One of my areas has gone thru 3 ford vans all of which went over 250K on the original engines and transmissions. Of the three, one of them had the transmission go out at 260K, the other two were still running great when sent to the auction.
Our old

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"Ashton Crusher" ... "Wickeddoll"

*snip*
Those are *large* vehicles, that you've mentioned. Any economy-class >200 K with no major problems?
I've already acknowledged that domestic large vehicles are often superior.
Natalie
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<Snip>
Hey again, Natalie! Nice to see you again. I was trying not to get into this conversation (:-P) but I just had to point out that a friends Saturn went to almost 400,000 Km's, and was still running when she got rid of it...You know how much I like GM, but even *I* don't like Saturn's!
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"80 Knight" ...

Hey, 80!
Yeah, now that you've mentioned it, I remember that people used to love Saturns, but apparently they've gone downhill?
Natalie
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Her's was a 2001, if memory serves. As for the newer ones, I have never driven one, but I did read an article in a local paper that one of them won some sort of award. I never liked them because they were made of plastic, and I never thought them to be attractive.
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On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 23:00:59 -0400, "Wickeddoll"

We don't buy too many really small ones. But I think you have a point, the larger, RWD usually are more robust. But we've driven many mid-sized, like Chevy Celebrities back in the mid 80's (they were almost indestructible), and more recently Lumina's and Taurus's. Many go well into the 150K region though before getting sold.
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"Ashton Crusher" "Wickeddoll"

I used to work with a doc who only bought Taurus(es?). He's a country doc out in the boonies (still makes house calls) and he drove those things to hell and back. He was once shot at by an elderly patient who forgot he was coming to see her. He left the bullet holes there, and somehow managed to trade it. LOL
:-)
Natalie
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That's true IMO. The domestic bottom end cars have much lower quality than up a level. The Fusion has a good record so far, the Focus has been troublesome.
The bottom end "imports" from Honda and Toyota have good reliability. All VWs have been troublesome since they went to Mexico in the early 90s. I've heard that German manufactured VW are very reliable.
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who wrote:

You know what is stupid about building the cheap cars with crap reliability? That's the first impression many young buyers get of a car company! If you buy a Cobalt when you are 18 and it's a piece of crap why in the world would you consider GM when you have a little more money to spend? You are gonna look elsewhere because of the bad experience.
GM doesn't seem to get that.
b
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wrote:

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
GM seems to have forgotten that proverb, along with,
You never get a second chance to make a good first impression.
Charles of Schaumburg
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n5hsr wrote:

That expression has been revised. It's now " fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again." (I'm a fan of George Bush, but that was still funny, and embarrassing. I guess the Who helped with the re-write of the clich.) :)
Bill of Farmville
--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
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"who" <...

If I were in the market for a large vehicle (minivan or truck) I'd head straight for domestic dealers. The Japanese haven't mastered those all-American vehicles. I see *so* many ancient Ford trucks on the road; sometimes rusty, but still spry. What's really cool is when the owner has invested in detailing them. Nothing cooler-looking, IMO; especially if it's bright red.
:-)
Natalie
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yeah. That's right. That's why Honda spent FIVE YEARS selling Odysseys at list price plus. That's why GM has ABANDONED the minivan market, period--and told the world so.
Face it: the Americans made their mark selling big, rwd, body-on-frame vehicles. When it came to changing that, to selling small, efficient, front-drive vehicles, the Americans fell flat on their faces. Still do.
The Americans turned on the marketing machine to solve their problem: they convinced stupid people that the "SUV" was the way to go. This allowed them to continue to build and sell big, rwd, body-on-frame vehicles that they knew how to build and sell.
That they were selling this to the former station wagon market, and that they abandoned the station wagon--well, that's the hand they'd rather you not look at. Just like a magician, they want you to look at the other hand, the one holding the leather-clad truck.
So Suzy Stupidmom is convinced that she needs a full-size truck with a built-on cap and leather seats to transport her Precious to daycare.
When the world can no longer support that model, what will the American carmakers do?
They can fuck off and die.
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