Drive your car to death, save $31,000

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Drive your car to death, save $31,000 http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/30/autos/cr_drive_200k/index.htm?postversion 07083113
August 31 2007: 1:53 PM EDT
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- By keeping your car for 15 years, or 225,000 miles of driving, you could save nearly $31,000, according to Consumer Reports magazine. That's compared to the cost of buying an identical model every five years, which is roughly the rate at which most car owners trade in their vehicles.
In its annual national auto survey, the magazine found 6,769 readers who had logged more than 200,000 miles on their cars. Their cars included a 1990 Lexus LS400 with 332,000 miles and a 1994 Ford Ranger pick-up that had gone 488,000 miles.
Honda Civic Consumer Reports calls the Honda Civic a "Good bet" to make it to 200,000 miles.
Calculating the costs involved in buying a new Honda Civic EX every five years for 15 years - including depreciation, taxes, fees and insurance - the magazine estimated it would cost $20,500 more than it would have cost to simply maintain one car for the same period. Tagged: 10 cars with bad reputations
Added to that, the magazine factored in $10,300 in interest that could have been earned on that money, assuming a five percent interest rate and a three percent inflation rate, over that time.
The magazine found similar savings with other models.
To have much hope of making it to 200,000 miles, a car has to be well maintained, of course. The magazine recommends several steps to help your car see it through.
* Follow the maintenance guide in your owner's manual and make needed repairs promptly. * Use only the recommended types of fluids, including oil and transmission fluids. * Check under the hood regularly. Listen for strange sounds, sniff for odd smells and look for fraying or bulges in pipes or belts. Also, get a vehicle service manual. They're available at most auto parts stores or your dealership. * Clean the car carefully inside and out. This not only helps the car's appearance but can prevent premature rust. Vacuuming the inside also prevents premature carpet wear from sand and grit. * Buy a safe, reliable car. Buying a car with the latest safety equipment makes it more likely you'll feel as safe in your aging car as a newer model.
The magazine recommends several cars that have the best shot at reaching the 200,000 mile mark and a few that, according to its data, aren't likely to make it.
All the cars in the magazine's "Good bets" list are manufactured by Honda (Charts) and Toyota (Charts). (One extreme example was not enough to get the Ford Ranger onto the list.) The "Bad bets" are a mixture of European models and two Nissans.
Consumer Reports' "Good bets" for making 200,000 miles: Honda Civic, Honda CR-V, Honda Element, Lexus ES, Lexus LS, Toyota 4Runner, Toyota Highlander, Toyota Land Cruiser, Toyota Prius, Toyota RAV4
Consumer Reports' "Bad bets" for making 200,000 miles: BMW 7-series, Infiniti QX56, Jaguar X-type, V8-powered Mercedes-Benz M-class, Mercedes-Benz SL, Nissan Armada, Nissan Titan, Volkswagen Touareg, V6-powered Volvo XC90.
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YA right. Our honda accord didn't even make 35,000miles, the cam lobes wore out. Sold that POS real quick.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/30/autos/cr_drive_200k/index.htm?postversion 07083113

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On more example, of why one should take CR advice on ANYTHING with a grain of salt. In reality who would want to depend on ANY vehicle with more than 150K on the clock as their primary vehicle? LOL
mike

http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/30/autos/cr_drive_200k/index.htm?postversion 07083113

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On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:50:40 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

Not if you take the advice of the cheapskates who poo-poo changing antifreeze, brake fluid, or tranny fluid, or who say changing oil more than once or twice a year is a waste of money. A properly maintained vehicle is just nicely broken in at 100,000 miles.
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Mike Hunter wrote:

Our newest car, the Taurus wagon, will hit 200,000 miles this week. I just drove from the Adirondacks to Minnesota & back fully loaded. 27 mpg w/ A/C on. Nary a worry or problem.
The last Honda we traded in, an Accord, was at 245,000 mi. but I wouldn't travel too far in that. Everything leaked. With the 5 speed stick it was still churning out 37 mpg highway.
Rob
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Rob,
Just curious ...
What year Taurus? What motor?
Any repair costs of -any- kind in the 200k mi.?
Thx, P

"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!" -Friedrich Schiller
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Puddin' Man wrote:

1997
What motor?
3.0 Vulcan, of course.

Of course.
VSS $40 part + $40 labor @196K mi.
Steering rack - ~$110
Ball joints - ~130K mi.?
Broken front springs - ~$110
Front stabilizer end links - x2, twice, for $28 x 2 total as they were warrantied. They rattle annoyingly when they fail.
1 rear hub - ~$40
Both Front Hubs - Unk $... ~$40 ea.?
I did the front struts at ~188K miles with the springs. They were still good, just ratty looking & hard to extend.
Biggest single repair - camshaft position sensor, ~$210. I drove in "limp mode" for about 6 months before getting to it. ~190k mi.
All pretty common Taurus issues.
-Tires are $65 each. -Oil changed w/ Mobil 1 about every 15K to 18K mi. I'm at 10K+ now & the oil is clean & full.
ATF cooler line repair(NE salt corrosion) ~$30. I use Mercon V. Also gas tank corroded at the seam @~ 170K mi. $200. That one made me mad as the car doesn't have any rust otherwise.
& an oddball repair - the tailgate glass hinges fatigued. ~$80.00 for the pair.
Brakes - checked & serviced at 50k to 60k mi. Off-the-shelf parts from Advance or AutoZone are ridiculously inexpensive and warrantied.
I've never been stranded or towed, which is kinda' nice.
I'm looking for a replacement in about a year.
Rob

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I'm not gonna ask how your diagnosed cps ... I didn't even know they had one.

Not too bad, all things considered.
Of course, it's easier for someone like you to efficiently get 200+k mi. from such a beast because you know so much about 'em ...
I've heard repairs would've been less with, say, a Camry. But they cost more and I'm not sure I believe 'em anyway.

**Full** after 10k mi.? No non-trivial leaks? On a Ford product with 200k on the motor?? Lawdy, Mercy!! :-)

Yeah, that one definitely sounds funny. Like maybe they failed to seal/apply finish at the factory.

'Tis indeed.

Another Honda perhaps?
Cheers, P

"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!" -Friedrich Schiller
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Puddin' Man wrote:

96 & up. SES light on, OBDII scan tool.

No way. A Taurus.
Our current Honda, like the last one, is now leaking almost a half-quart a month through the oil pan and I'm trying to get to that now. It only has 145k mi.
The Honda manual says to service the brakes every 6 months in northern climates. And they're right - the calipers bind up if you don't.
The distributor grenaded at ~100k mi. - the refurb part was over $300. The engine is otherwise good, but it sucked in the valve cover gasket about the same time.
It's an interference engine, so the timing belts must be changed every 100K or better.
Rob

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...

B-B-B-But .... a "new" Taurus is no longer a "Taurus"? :-)
Maybe one of the following:
a.) 2007 "Taurus" Taurus <g> (with Vulcan OHV?) on dealers back lot.
b.) 2008 Five Hundred or Freestyle-based "Taurus"
c.) Used late-model Taurus in flawless shape and with very lo miles.
Eh?
I my po' self swore off new autos back in the late '80s.

Blew the pan gasket? Somebody knocked a hole in the pan?

That's curious.

Hmmmmm.
If a priority of reliability supercedes performance, do interference engine designs really make sense? All belts/chains are gonna break: it's just a question of timing. Install a defective belt and it's gonna crunch pistons/valves when it breaks?
Puddin'

"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!" -Friedrich Schiller
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Puddin' Man wrote:

Best bet. Taurus/Sable wagons are a dime a dozen.

RUST.
I challenge you to find a Vulcan 3.0 with a failed timing chain.
Rob

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Oh? I hadn't looked, but I thought Taurus/Sable were holding value pretty well. Only the wagons are cheap?

Hah! That's sillier than the Taurus gas tank.
Forgot to ask: about how much at the average dealer for the ball joint job?

Doesn't answer my Q. Interference engines are perhaps so ubiquitious (sp?) that it doesn't matter anymore?
I was assuming Vulcan was not an interference engine. Maybe I missed the mark there.
Vulcan is iron heads/block, very reliable. The all-aluminum Duratec ohc had/has numerous problems?
Thx, P

"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!" -Friedrich Schiller
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On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 19:45:39 -0500, Puddin' Man

Taurus oil pans rust through too. As do Aerostar and Winstar 3.0 oil pans. And Chrysler (Mitsu-shitty) 3.0 oil pans. Cast aluminum pans don't rust, but oil-changing 'droids strip the threads out.
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On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 21:36:02 -0400, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:

Why do they rust thru? Is there a problem with specification of thickness, finish, etc?
Did such problem exist with common motors from previous periods i.e. 60's, 70's??
Did GM 283 cu. in. rust thru? MoPar 361/383??
P
"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!" -Friedrich Schiller
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On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 17:17:18 -0400, trainfan1

Have seen a few at my brother's shop where the cam stopped turning. Engine replacement time.
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I know one can easily run any car to well over 150K, if they performs the proper preventative maintenance.
Beside my 2006 and 2007 cars, I own four old cars, three have between 100K and 200k on the clock. The fourth is a '71 Pinto with 302,000 miles on the clock. They all looks and run like new but I would not want to depend on any for my primary vehicle. I only drive them once a month and take them to car shows.
mike

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I depend on my 1995 Escort as a daily driver. It has over 150,000 miles on it. I'd drive it across the country if I wanted to. Everything on it works perfectly.
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On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:19:54 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

My 1994 Pontiac TransSport has over 350,000km 0n it and I'd drive it anywhere.Daily driver and work vehicle.
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That may be but the odds of something going south any day are pretty high. There is no question any car can easily be run up to 200K or more, given the proper maintenance, but the likelihood of a failure grows with the mileage once you get over 150K.
mike
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On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 19:11:21 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

My experience is that by 150,000 the weaknesses are known and fixed, so in many cases you are LESS likely to suffer a breakdown than with a newer car. I've gone to the east coast with a 20 year old car with over 100,000 miles with no problems whatsoever, as well as to Oklahoma in an 18 year old truck with over 225,000 miles (from Ontario) with no problems, and lost a transmission and a driveshaft on trips west with half the mileage on vehicles half the age. Also to the east coast with 12 and 14 year old cars with 100,000 ish miles. The newest, lowest mileage one lost both a timing belt and alternator within 48 hours of each other (12 year old Vauxhaul with roughly 84,000 miles).
Mileage on a car means NOTHING to me - it's maintenance and how well I know the car. After 240,000km you are getting to know the car pretty good.

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