Ford chief seeks help from Toyota

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Mellowed:

Would that be the Lariat Ranger, Taurus, Mustang, T-bird... oh, you only read half my post.
No I understand, you're a Ford fan and want to protect the image but Ford has to reach a point where they stop blowing sunshine and take some of the criticism as valid otherwise they will disappear like many other car makers before them.
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Mac Cool

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I dont think America would allow that to happen. Ford is an Icon that shows each and every one of us that we can make it if we work hard and try.
Nick
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I don't see America doing anything special to help Ford or GM. Pan Am and Eastern were icons too. Unless Ford can turn around fast, I see the bankruptcy court being involved in Ford's fate. Plus, the problems that Chrysler had in the 80s were differnet than what Ford has now, I think (I don't recall what they were - I was young back then). Another difference is that Toyota builds about 1/2 their cars in the US. Most of the US-built cars have mostly US parts (no US car has enough US content to be called "Made in America," however, according to FTC standards).
Think about other American icons that have slipped recently. IBM comes to mind. They invented the IBM-compatible PC, but don't make any after selling their PC division to a Chinese company.

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IMO big difference here. First off there were many other American Airline industries. Next we are talking about manufacturing not just someone providing transportation. At one time Ford was helping build Tanks and other vehicles for the Military. If we lose that capability totally who would we trust an ally to make it for us? Might as well expect them to fight for us too, yah right. I see Ford as a greatly undervalued stock as it is also a pick for one of next years great investments. Comparing Chrysler without being able to make a point for either one of us is pretty silly, I was young too. :) I do remember Lee Iacocca made a promise to pay back the government and he did just so with plenty of profits for the company as well when he retired. Which reminds me. Chrysler has been under Daimler now and they are doing poorly as well. You would think that they would employ the same principles that makes one great to their new acquisition. I forget the standard they set to call a vehicle "Made in America." I just find it hard to believe that as you say "no" US car has enough US parts to be called "Made in America." I bet Bob Hope is rolling around in his grave, sigh. Whats wrong with this country anyway? No more proud to be American in the media. We allow immigrants to sneak in illegally and others to economically pick us apart with no safety net for the American worker. I love our country and just want to say, God Bless America!!!!!!!
Nick
P.S. Lee Iacocca for President! of Ford that is. :)
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You mean like Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW and Mercedes, all of which make cars in the US?

Providing transportation provides jobs.

And at one time, the airlines were moving soldiers around and move mail around.

Gee, I don't know, the people who already build tanks. Who made planes during the war? IBM.

Then buy it.

According to the FTC, it means a product advertised as Made in USA be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. In other words, Made in the USA means built in the USA of components all made in the USA.
A lot of the components in cars are made the car makers outside the US, like in Canada, Mexico or Asia. If the electronics come from outside the US, and everything else is from inside the US, you've lost the right to say, "Made in the USA."
No car meets this standard.
Here are some examples of "Made in the US" claims that did not make it:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1999/01/musasweep6.htm

Why?
What is great about this country is that this country is part of the world and the world economy.
Jeff

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Actually only GM, Ford, Honda and Nissan sell vehicles that are made in America with an 'American' content of over 70% that exhibit a '1' as the first number of the VIN. The others only assemble some of their vehicles in America with an 'American' content of less than 70% and display '4' and '5' in the VIN. Those with a '5,' as the first number of the VIN like the Tundra, have less than 40% 'American' content.
mike

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Jeff wrote:

Car makers do not make this claim. They only have to state the percentage of parts that are of US or Canada origin and where the engine and transmission came from.
If you are going to post this info from the FTC site, you should at least read all of what it says. What you are writing applies to those things other than textiles and autos. Different products have different labeling requirements. Some are voluntary and some are mandatory.
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I know car makers do not claim "Made in America." That is because they can't according to FTC rules.

You're mixing apples and oranges. One requirement is the requirement that car makers state percent of American content and the other where the engine and transmission came from.
If any manufacturer wants to claim that an item is "Made in the US," all or virtually all of the parts have to be made in the US.
One is a reporting requirement for all cars. Another is a requirement that specifies what "Made in the USA" means to use that or similar labeling.
The FTC has this to say about this: "American Automobile Labeling Act - Requires that each automobile manufactured on or after October 1, 1994, for sale in the U.S. bear a label disclosing where the car was assembled, the percentage of equipment that originated in the U.S. and Canada, and the country of origin of the engine and transmission. Any representation that a car marketer makes that is required by the AALA is exempt from the Commission's policy. When a company makes claims in advertising or promotional materials that go beyond the AALA requirements, it will be held to the Commission's standard. For more information, call the Consumer Programs Division of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (202-366-0846)." Source: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/madeusa.pdf Jeff
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http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=American+Automobile+Labeling+Act
Good info about 'made in the USA'.
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Mac Cool

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understand the tooling machines they already had making parts for cash registers and scales.

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<...>

You're correct. I mistakenly thought they made planes too. I guess TJ Watson, Jr., flying generals around Europe was enough. They also made the accounting machines that help track soldiers and money and stuff for the War Department (in both the US and Germany), and greatly helped the war effort this way as well as their computing machinery helped developed the atomic bombs.
Jeff
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Are these American? Is it in the best interest of our govt to save VW? Sure they may be made in America as well but they are not American owned their loyalty is to their own country.

You missed the point. From a Government standpoint you would need to maintain some manufacturing. Boeing would compare to Ford in regard to the point I am making and just as I am suggesting the govt should protect Ford they should protect Boeing.

Good point but as long as you have the capability to manufacture airplanes the Military could very well move troops and mail around under dire circumstances. You are missing the point I am trying to make. Protecting manufacturing otherwise you wont have the capability to move a thing.

Just look at what transpired during WWII. The assistance of many manufacturing companies were needed. God forbid that ever happens again.

Sold.
They are percentages not as vague as you make it sound.

Bob Hope used to do many Made in the USA commercials promoting US products. He used to do many entertaining shows for the troops. He was a great man very pro USA.

OMG. So many things wrong with that statement. For starters you just gave up your individual identity. We are great because of our foundation, our beliefs. We had good work ethics. Cared for our own as well as our allies. Being apart of the World and the economy means nothing as just existing would make you apart of the world and economy.
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No so, the requirement to exhibit a '1' as the first number of the VIN and be made in the US and is to have at least a 70% US content. Content is more than the sum of the parts, it includes everything for R&D, engineering design, origin of the steel, plastics, tires assembly etal, to make the vehicle. If the content is less than 70%, but more than 40%, the first digit assigned is a '4.' If the content is below 40% the first digit is a '5.' A vehicle could theoretically have zero US content but still have a '5' if it is assembled in the US.
If you look at most of what GM and Ford sell, as well as the Accord, Titan, or the vehicles made in the GM/Toyota plant in California for example you will see a '1' The Camry, Sienna and even a few Ford made trucks on the other hand exhibit '4' The Tundra a '5' Because of a complaint to the FTC by Honda, Toyota no longer says made in America in their ads. They now say assembled in America of world sourced parts
mike
wrote in messageI forget the standard they set to call a

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Some day this urban legend will die, but I doubt it, any more than claims of 200 mpg carburetors for big blocks have died away.. All the first number does is tell where the damn thing was assembled. It doesn't have a thing to do with content. if toyota ships a camry in pieces to the US and then assembles it here, it gets a 1 or a 4. Every piece could be Japanese manufactured and it will still get a 1 or a 4. Just like vehicles assembled in Mexico get a 3, or Japan get a J or England an S.
Whitelightning
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That may be want to believe and you are correct when you say vehicles assembled in Mexico get a '3' and Japan a "I." Even the Camrys that have a "J" display a NA Content label of something like 70% and the complete vehicle is made of parts from all over the far east. Like all other counties they have only one number assigned, just as the vehicles made in Canada by US and Japanese manufactures, of US or other imported parts get a '2.' If what you believe to be true, was actually true, there would be only one number for the US as well, a '1.'
Actually the Camry you described would get a '5,' less than 40% US content. The only Toyota vehicles assembled in the US that get a '1' are those made in the GM/California plant where the UAW contract requires 70 & US content
mike

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On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:25:57 -0500, Mike Hunter rearranged some electrons to form:

The 1st digit of the VIN does not designate anything about the parts content.
You were wrong before, Mike, and you're still wrong.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.ford/browse_frm/thread/58fd656baa1b7f88/444c5d18dde60d3b?lnk=st&q=ford+VIN+position&rnum #444c5d18dde60d3b
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David M (dmacchiarolo)
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On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:32:58 -0500, Mike Hunter rearranged some electrons to form:

The 1st digit of the VIN does not designate anything about the parts content.
You were wrong before, Mike, and you're still wrong.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.ford/browse_frm/thread/58fd656baa1b7f88/444c5d18dde60d3b?lnk=st&q=ford+VIN+position&rnum #444c5d18dde60d3b
--
David M (dmacchiarolo)
http://home.triad.rr.com/redsled
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Why do you keep on with this? It simply isn't so...
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/vin.htm "The first digit identifies the nation of origin. If the car was assembled from parts produced in different countries, this digit reflects the nation where the car was assembled. Some larger nations are split into regions. For example, cars built in Japan are assigned a J in the first digit. But cars made in the U.S. can have a 1, 4 or 5, depending on the region of its assembly. "
You might also look at http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_04/49cfr583_04.html and show us where it mentions the first digit in the VIN is dependent on domestic parts content. (Hint: it doesn't!!)
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How Stuff Works may say that, but, that does not explain why vehicles that are built on the same assembly line have different first digits in thier VIN.

Thanks. I haven't seen these documents. I will take a look at them later when I have high-speed internet access instead of dial-up.
Jeff
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