Ford chief seeks help from Toyota

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That may be your opinion but a little logic will prove what you believe is wrong. There are similar variation in GM and Chrysler vehicles as well.
Tundra's a made in Indiana have 5, Titans made just over the state line have a 1. Ford Trucks made in Kentucky have a 1. Lincoln pickups made on the same assemble line have a 4.
mike

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Ask the SAE, if you really want to know, since they are contracted with the US DOT to assign the WMI to every new vehicle produced in the US.

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A little research will prove what you believe is stupid.
There are similar variation in GM and Chrysler vehicles as well.

So the Titans are made with over 70% US content????
Ford Trucks made in Kentucky have a 1. Lincoln pickups made on the

You've posted this before but provide no evidence to back this up. Even if so, the Ford Trucks and Lincolns made on the same assembly line, preseumably with the same basic parts mix, actually proves you wrong...
The WMI assigned by the SAE to the Lincoln pickups were assigned much later than the Ford trucks since Lincoln only recently started making pickups.
Give it up.
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You are free to believe whatever you chose, but if you used a little logic it should become apparent that there must be a reason the US has three numbers, rather than one as do all other countries. Do a search as I did when I became curios as to why there is more than one number for vehicles assemble in the US. You will discover as I have that it the difference is US content, which is more than the totality of the parts. '1' indicates more than 70%, '4' less than 70% but more than 40% and '5' less than 40%. ;)
mike

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Re: Ford chief seeks help from Toyota Group: alt.autos.ford Date: Sat, Jan 6, 2007, 9:02pm (EST+5) From: snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (Jeff)
You are free to believe whatever you chose, but if you used a little logic it should become apparent that there must be a reason the US has three numbers, rather than one as do all other countries. The fact that the US is so big and has so many auto, bus, truck, off-road vehicle, construction vehicle, etc., manufacturers is the reason. You're correct. I am free to believe whatever I want. And I went and did my research so that I would have an informed opinion. And my informed opinion is now based on facts, not on the conjecture of someone else who doesn't back up his statements. Do a search as I did when I became curios as to why there is more than one number for vehicles assemble in the US. You will discover as I have that it the difference is US content, which is more than the totality of the parts. '1' indicates more than 70%, '4' less than 70% but more than 40% and '5' less than 40%. I did do the search. What I found is that not one site mentions differences in content as a reason. I did find that nearly idencial vehicles produced on the same production line with nearly identical percent N.A. content have different VINs, because they are sold as different brands (Ford, Mercury, Lincoln, Mazda). If what you suggest is correct, then Ford would have a three groups of VINs, differing only in the first digit. However, as you can see on the second page, this is incorrect. https://www.fleet.ford.com/maintenance/vin_tools/pdfs/VIN2006.pdf Lincoln SUVs are all assigned a VIN beginning with '5'. Why? That is what the organization that assigns VINs decided. It has nothing to do with content. I also read the legal code that says the US Dept. of Transportation has to have VINs. It mentioned WMIs, but nothing about content. If your conjecture were correct, I would think it would be in the legal code. I went ahead and did my homework. My homework showed no support of your conjecture. And plenty of evidence against it. Please post the URL that shows I am incorrect. In other words, please put up or shut up. Did you notice not one person has said that your are correct? You'll also notice that I admit when I am wrong. The figures I got for Dec. 2006 auto sales where incorrect. According to Ward's Automotive, Toyota outsold Ford. But the figures were wrong. I admitted that. Mistakes happen. So let's see whether you should admit you were incorrect or I was. There is no shame in making a mistake. Show us the evidence you so often talk about, but don't show us. Jeff ;)<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
You guys have been arguing about who's number one forever and what the 1st number/letter in a VIN means. Nobody cares but the auto makers. All your ranting & raving is not going to change anything. Is it that important that you have to prove that you're right?
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You are free to believe whatever you chose, but if you used a little logic it should become apparent that there must be a reason the US has three numbers, rather than one as do all other countries. The fact that the US is so big and has so many auto, bus, truck, off-road vehicle, construction vehicle, etc., manufacturers is the reason. You're correct. I am free to believe whatever I want. And I went and did my research so that I would have an informed opinion. And my informed opinion is now based on facts, not on the conjecture of someone else who doesn't back up his statements. Do a search as I did when I became curios as to why there is more than one number for vehicles assemble in the US. You will discover as I have that it the difference is US content, which is more than the totality of the parts. '1' indicates more than 70%, '4' less than 70% but more than 40% and '5' less than 40%. I did do the search. What I found is that not one site mentions differences in content as a reason. I did find that nearly idencial vehicles produced on the same production line with nearly identical percent N.A. content have different VINs, because they are sold as different brands (Ford, Mercury, Lincoln, Mazda). If what you suggest is correct, then Ford would have a three groups of VINs, differing only in the first digit. However, as you can see on the second page, this is incorrect. https://www.fleet.ford.com/maintenance/vin_tools/pdfs/VIN2006.pdf Lincoln SUVs are all assigned a VIN beginning with '5'. Why? That is what the organization that assigns VINs decided. It has nothing to do with content. I also read the legal code that says the US Dept. of Transportation has to have VINs. It mentioned WMIs, but nothing about content. If your conjecture were correct, I would think it would be in the legal code. I went ahead and did my homework. My homework showed no support of your conjecture. And plenty of evidence against it. Please post the URL that shows I am incorrect. In other words, please put up or shut up. Did you notice not one person has said that your are correct? You'll also notice that I admit when I am wrong. The figures I got for Dec. 2006 auto sales where incorrect. According to Ward's Automotive, Toyota outsold Ford. But the figures were wrong. I admitted that. Mistakes happen. So let's see whether you should admit you were incorrect or I was. There is no shame in making a mistake. Show us the evidence you so often talk about, but don't show us. Jeff ;)<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
You guys have been arguing about who's number one forever and what the 1st number/letter in a VIN means. Nobody cares but the auto makers. All your ranting & raving is not going to change anything. Is it that important that you have to prove that you're right?
***********************************************************
You are so right about the stupid argument about who is number one. Hunter is famous for changing the subject of a discussion. Since entire auto world is global, a lot of the percent content don't really matter anymore. I thought that by buying from the Ford Dealer I would get genuine Ford Parts. To my Surprize the Genuine Ford Parts were made in a third world country. All I was doing was paying more for the Motorcraft label. So much for buying America..
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That may be so, but when one buys something they may want to knew the truth about where it is made. IF you knew that part was not what you thought, you may not have made the purchase. If they have that information they can make informed choices before they make a purchase. Knowing the designation of the first number of the VIN helps one in doing that. Many Americans have the mistaken idea, because of Toyotas deceptive advertising, that most of their vehicles are made in America of mostly US content and that is not factual. Unlike the Accord which IS actually made in the US of over 70% US content as shown in the '1' in the VIN, the Camry, Siena and Tundra are only assembled in the US of mostly non US content.
mike

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On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 15:35:28 -0500, Mike Hunter rearranged some electrons to form:

The 1st digit of the VIN does not designate anything about the parts content.
You were wrong before, Mike, and you're still wrong.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.ford/browse_frm/thread/58fd656baa1b7f88/444c5d18dde60d3b?lnk=st&q=ford+VIN+position&rnum #444c5d18dde60d3b
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Post a link and I will believe you. Otherwise you are wrong.
There is a reason why the US has three numbers. We have more assembly plants than anyone else.

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If you do a search you will discover there is a specific digit, in the VIN that designates the assemble plant.
mike

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Yeah, it's the 11th digit. Your point is?
My point as others have pointed out, we have more vehicles produced at more assembly plants. Your information that Fords and Lincoln trucks assembled at the same plant but with different country digits completely proves that you are incorrect.
We're still waiting for that link that specifically states the first digit determines US content....

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Think about it. The fact two vehicles assembled in the same plant can have different numbers proves it has to do with content. If not it would not only be the LT, but some of the F150s as well, that would exhibit a 4 ;)
mike

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The VIN list the manufacture as well as the divisions and truck have a different body designations than cars . You can try here www.fleet.ford.com/maintenance/vin but You may need a password to log on. No, I will not give you mine if you do.
What makes you think I would ever ride in the NYC subway? Keep searching and you will find what I found ;)
mike

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mind.
If I find myself at the Detroit auto show this month I will make a note of the VIN's and domestic content of the cars I look at and post them here. It opens to the public next Sunday.
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