Ford - circling the drain

Page 1 of 3  
When Ford CEO Alan Mulally was reviewing the company's 2008 product line last September...he was told that Ford loses close to $3,000 every time a customer buys a Focus compact http://doiop.com/Focus - "Why
haven't you figured out a way to make a profit?" he asked. Executives explained that Ford needed the high sales volume to maintain the company's CAFE, or corporate average fuel economy, rating and that the plant that makes the car is a high-cost UAW factory in Michigan. "That's not what I asked," he shot back. "I want to know why no one figured out a way to build this car at a profit, whether it has to be built in Michigan or China or India, if that's what it takes." Nobody had a good answer. =========Business Week article: http://doiop.com/b0a240
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The answer is simple - the executives simply don't want to build them. The Focus isn't an exciting car. Nobody ever made a name for themselves in car history by building econoboxes.
Ted
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

No...honda never stayed in business building econoboxes... or toyota... Not nearly as exciting as a Javelin.
Econoboxes should be the bread and butter. Not half tons.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

Try Toyota, Honda, Hyundai and Kia.
Jeff

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The only Focus competitors built in the US are the Civic, Corolla, and Sentra. For whatever reason, those all sell for more than a Focus. Only the Civic is a better car than the Focus (at least in my opinion) and it sells for a lot more. The Corolla is a very old design and a significant percentage are still manufactured in Japan. I can't understand why anyone would buy a Corolla or a Sentra in preference to a Focus.
Ed
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Maybe because the Corolla gets much better fuel economy? Source: www.fueleconomy.gov | "side by side" | "mileage estimates from drivers like you." Maybe because the Corolla has better resale value? Maybe because the Corolla doesn't fall apart when the warranty ends?
I can understand these reasons.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Who says Focus is not reliable? CR rates it as average. Admittedly they rate the Corolla better, but how significant is the difference - probably less than 1 problems every 2 years. The Corolla is rated about 3 mpg bettter, less than 10%, by the EPA, but it is also smaller. In CU testing, the overall fuel economy for the Corolla was 29, for the Focus 28 - essentially no real world difference. Resale value is a fickle thing, particularly if you keep the car until it is worn out. Up front, you will pay $2K to $3K more for the smaller Corolla. Now maybe you will recover that due to fuel savings and increased resale value, or maybe you won't. But if that is your main concern, then the Civic is clearly a better choice. Comparable gas mileage and better resale value and it isn't a hold over design from when dinosaurs ruled the earth. In my opinion, the Corolla, is cramped, plain, dull, and boring. Anyone who is buying a Corolla would be far better off buying a 1 or 2 year old used Focus. That way you get the "advantage" of all that initial high depreciation and get a better car besides. If you don't mind "cramped" then the Yaris or Honda Fit are better choices.
Ed
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

So, I looked at Edmunds and pretty much every 2002 Focus owner complained that they needed new rotors by 30K miles. Let's see, that's $250-$400 for the work and the aggravation of waiting around for Insty-Brakes to do the job? Yeah, I gott get me some of that. My Toyotas are going well over 60K miles on the first set of pads (yes, even my big, heavy Sienna, which does a lot of around-town duty with my wife, who is very hard on brakes) and the rotors are lasting 100K and more.

There's a reason I directed you to www.fueleconomy.gov. Never mind the EPA estimates, compare actual mileage reports from 2006 Corolla and Focus owners; the Corolla is beating the Focus by 7 or so mpg in the real world, more like 20-25% than 10%.

The current Corolla was introduced in 2001 or so. The 2008 will be all-new. That's a long run for a Toyota but it's nothing like the way GM and Ford dragged out the Cavalier or Crown Vic. When's that Focus to be made over?

Get real. The trashy resale value of the Focus tells you that the judgement of the market is that the Coroll is the better car.

"Cramped?" Are you used to driving a motor home? Go check Edmunds' reviews of the Yaris; "cramped" is not a term Yaris owners use. "Value" comes up pretty often, though.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Not if you read the Edmunds User Review for the Focus - plenty of people there claiming as good or better mileage than the EPA numbers.

2008
And BigMacs are the greatest hamburger in the world.

Not even Toyota Reports, errr...I mean Consumer Reports recommends the Yaris.
"The Toyota Yaris offers excellent fuel economy and reliability, but overall it trails better economy cars. The ride is compliant and routine handling is reasonably responsive, but handling gets sloppy and hard to control at its limits. Stops are very long without the optional ABS. Acceleration is adequate, but engine and road noise result in a loud cabin. The compromised driving position and the center-mounted gauges are frustrations. Although the starting price is enticingly low, a well-equipped Yaris sedan can easily top $15,000. First-year reliability is excellent, but the Yaris scored too low in our testing to be recommended."
In fact, of all the Toyotas CR has tested, only the Yaris and FJ Cruiser don't get the recommended rating. Even the Focus is recommended. However, owners (even CR readers who own them) seem to love them. I only sat in one and thought it was a POS, and over priced too. Do you really think it is better than a Honda Fit - a CR highly recommended model? 75% of the CR reader who rated the Fit gave it 5 stars but then but 6 of the 22 people who rate the Ford Focus gave it 5 stars too. Only two CR readers had anything bad to say about the 2006 Focus, and one of those only drove a rental Focus.
Ed
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Does that make them equivalent dinosaurs?
Does the Focus have variable valve timing? The Corolla has - and has had for quite some time. I'd think twice before suggesting that it's antiquated in comparison to other cars currently on the market.

There's a resale market for Big Macs?

Gee, if there's a bias towards Toyota, as you imply, why didn't Consumer reports recommend Toyotas 100%? That is to say, "Grow up."

I read CR. I have no idea what their "compromised driving position" refers to but owner reports on Edmunds suggest that their drivers are perfectly happy with the driving position. I've heard others praise the center-mounted gauges. CR may not like them but then perhaps it takes a while to get used to and appreciate (owners' reports also suggest this).

I don't recall saying it was necessarily better than a Fit. I also didn't necessarily say it was "better" than a Focus. You said, on 5/30 at about 6:00pm, you couldn't "understand why anyone would buy a Corolla" over a Focus. I simply gave you three reasons, all of which ARE supported by CR - and Edmunds and others. I suppose I could have simply been nice and said, the Corolla "offers better reliability," rather than "doesn't fall apart when the warranty ends" but I'm only human and my personal ownership experience with Ford taught me that they are, indeed, execrable and that no one at Ford from the CEO right on down to the guy that empties the waste oil drum at the dealership gives the tiniest shit whether or not you are happy with your car or even whether or not you buy another Ford.
Anyway, then you suggested the Yaris is "cramped" and I referred you to sources which suggest this is not the case. One Yaris owner report comes from someone who is 6'5".

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Yaris is a toy not a car. Maybe for a kid but no one who knows anything of cars would buy one. They are cheap looking and cramped

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Get real they were not reason they were questions asked and the answers it not what you may think. NO cars today, fall apart when the warranty ends. If some do it is because they have 100K warranties. What he call the Corolla slightly better fuel economy is because it has a lot small engine, 500 CC. Even the bigger Ford 200 CC engine get better mileage than the 1.8L Corolla engine.
Toyotas so called better retail value is a result of it much high drive home price, than anything else. If a three year old Focus is worth $3,000 less than a Corolla it is because the Corolla cost $5,000 more to drive home when new. The Focus actually returns a higher percentage of the new car price, than does a Corolla. More importantly the Toyota dealer will not give YOU much of that so called higher resale value when you trade your Corolla. One will get more for ones trade at a Ford dealer. Toyota dealer typically offers than wholesale on all trades.
Mike

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mike Hunter wrote:

500 cc? That is 0.5 liter or about 30 cu in. That is about 1/4 the size of the engine in the old Ford Contour (the 4 cyl engine, not the V6).

How is 200 cc (0.2 liter) bigger than the 1.8 liter Corolla engine?
The Ford Focus with a 2.0 liter engine (perhaps that is what you meant) gets 27 mpg city / 37 mpg highway (with the 5-sp manual) while the Toyota Corolla with the 1.8 liter engine gets 30 mpg city, 38 highway. So the Toyota does better. Oh, and if you get the 5-sp manual in the Toyota, it gets 32 city/41 highway.
The Corolla has about 10 fewer HP (136 vs 126) and 11 fewer ft lb (133 vs 122).
The Honda Civic has nearly the same size engine as the Toyota (1794 vs 1799 cc), but gets 140 hp and has 128 ft-lb of torque. And it gets better mileage than the Ford (30/38 with the manual).
All numbers were for the 2007 models. And were obtained at the Ford website (using the model comparison feature).

You're comparing apples to oranges. There is more to value than a less powerful engine (the Ford's compared to the Honda's) and worse fuel efficiency (the Ford's).

The original retail price was about $10,000 (invoice price + destination was $13,000 - $3000 (estimated) discounts) for a Ford Focus. The Toyota was Corolla $13,500 (MRSP). So that is a difference of $3,500 in price. The Ford is now worth $7900 (retail) and the Toyota is worth $11,325 (retail). The Ford held 79% of its value while the Toyota held 83% of its price.
Now, if you go to trade it in, the Toyota is worth $9625 (71% of it retail price) vs. %6575 for the Ford (66% of its retail price).
So, whether you sell the used car at retail or at trade in value, the Toyota retains more of its value than the Ford, assuming one paid MSRP for the Toyota, but got about a $3000 discount on the Ford.
> The Focus actually returns a higher percentage of the new car price,

Only if Ford's 79% is more than Toyota's 83% (retail) or if Ford's 66% is more than Toyota's 71%.
All values are from NADA, using 07071 as the ZIP, 36,000 mi on the trade in and no options for either vehicle.

Well, you claimed that NADA reflects what the dealers actually pay for the cars. Anyway, no one is forcing one to sell the car to the Toyota dealer or buy another Toyota. Why would one want to do that? ;-)
Jeff

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Little slow again today? What is the difference between a 2300 CC engine and a 1800 CC engine?
I guess you do not get shop for new cars too often, right. What part of "drive home price" do you not understand? LOL
mike

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mike Hunter wrote:

You said: "What he call [sic] the Corolla slightly better fuel economy is because it has a lot small engine, 500 CC."
That means that it (presumably the Corolla) has a 500 cc engine, not that the difference between the two engines is not 500 cc. If you said that the "is because it has a lot smaller engine, by 500 cc", then it would have been clear what you meant. I am sorry for any confusion.
I understand drive home price well.
Again, I used the numbers from NADA, which you claim is the only source that uses numbers directly from the dealers (although it does reflect the selling price of new cars, just used cars).
Perhaps you can tell me what a more accurate selling price for a 2004 Ford Focus was in 2003 or 2004.
Again, you are unable to back your claims.
Jeff
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
You don't need to apologize for being confused, we are accustomed to you being confused. Obviously you do not understand the difference between the selling price and the drive home price. Educate yourself, for a change, on the subject before you choose to reply, WBMA. Go get a selling price on ANY car, then try driving it home for that price.
One can get the exact same car, for the exact same selling price, on the exact same car with the exact same MSRP, from two different dealerships, yet the drive home price can be hundreds, or even thousand of dollars more on one than the other. When I was in retail we often offered a selling price that was $2,000 below our cost when the buyer had as late model trade. We simply deducted $3,000 for the trade price when presenting the drive home price. On our foreign brands we always had a $2,499 'smoke and mirrors package' that cost us $150, on every car on the lot. We could 'discount' the selling price $2,300 and still sell the vehicle over MSRP. If the customer insisted on more for the trade we simply our 'fees' increased the retention on the interest rate. It is known in the business as never reducing the gross.
A new car Sales Managers goal is to have a little capital tied up in a deal as possible, since rarely will there be enough cash received, to pay the manufacture for the that new car after the sale. I may take the sale of two or more of the resulting trades, before the dealerships cash flow becomes positive, after the original sale.
mike
"Jeff" < ...

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote in message news:465ec84c$0$1099

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Many? Define that. The overall rating by owners was 8.7, not great, but not awful either (the FABULOS Corolla got a monstorouly higher rating of 9.0). I didn't see a single review where anyone reported it as "an unreliable piece of crap." I did not rear all the Edmunds' reviews, but I looked for the lowest rating a I could find. At CR Online 17 of 22 reviewers gave the Focus 5 Stars (highest rating). Here are a few of the o"other" comments from Edmunds:
"Just got the Ford Focus SE 5 door. So far I like it. The gas millage is great. The Focus seems to handle very well. "
"So far I'm getting about 34 to 35 mpg on standard 5-speed."
"I love my Ford Focus!"
"Just got this car in the past few days as a replacement for another vehicle. I have found that this cars basic features are better than the same type cars in its class and I have no problems with this car so far. I did a great deal of research on this car and liked the MPG and the way it handles on the road. I have the added features of cruise control and side air bags that my last 2007 vehicle did not have plus that same gas savings even with the added horse power. Not as costly as a Toyota in the same class and is a better car than the 2007 Yaris that I had to replace. I would highly recommend this car for anyone looking for a fun way to get from here to there with good dependability."
"Great car! Comfortable, roomy, spirited and very reasonably priced."
"MPG verses room. 30+ mpg no matter how I drive it. Top mpg has been 37 so far with a 4 speed automatic."
Even the people that gave it a bad rating, talked about how well it drove. The worst compalint I saw was some one complaining about a squeak the dealer had not fixed yet.

EPA Ratings
Best Corolla - 1.8L, Man(5), Regular - 28/37 Best Focus - 2L, Man (5) Regular - 24/33
At the EPA site, for the Focus, the number of actual users reporting mileage on any one model was tiny - I don't think you could consider it statistically significant. The highest average Focus was a 2001 2L Man - 34.0 mpg, but only 2 reports were included. The lowest was for a 2002 2L Man - 24.4 mpg, but again this was based on two reports. Hardly worth talking about. There were more reports from Corolla owners, but not enough to be statistically significant. In general, it appears to me that the delta between the Focus and Corolla based on user reports is exactly what you would expect from the EPA estimates. The typical Corolla driver probably gets 2 to 4 mpg more than the typical Focus driver. On the other had the 4 Door Focus has more passenger room than the Corolla ( 94 to 89 cubic feet) and more luggage volume than the Corolla (15 to14 cubic feet). The mileage difference was similar in the Conumer Reports Road Tests. For a 2003 Corolla LE sedan, 1.8-liter Four, 4-speed automatic, CR claimed 20 city, 39 highway, 35 on the 150 mile trip, and 29 mpg overall. For a 2002 Focus door hatchback, 2.0-liter Four, 4-speed automatic, CR claimed 17 City, 33 highway, 29 on the 150 mile trip, and 24 mpg overall (and the 2007 should have better mileage). So it seems to me you can expect the larger Focus to get 2 to 4 miles per gallon less than the Corolla. After 100,000 miles you might save $1500 on gas. I am confident that I can by a Focus with similar equipment for more than $3000 less than a Corolla. And remember the Focus is larger. When you read the user reviews for the Corolla the things most people seem to rave about are reliability and gas mileage. Focus drivers rave about room and handling.
Ed
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Actually, if you look at the '04s, it's 8.7 to 9.2. And the range of those ratings isn't all that wide. Cars that are total, unmitigated pieces of crap usually still manage an 8-point-something, because most of the reviews are written before the breakdowns begin.

Well, read on...

I like to look a few years back, to see how the long-term reliability is going to shape up. Here's my favorite Focus review - I was looking at comments for the 2002 SE 4-door, it's the first one you see in that category, but Edmunds does seem to mix models (or people are careless about selecting matching models when entering their notes):
"In 4 years I have had to replace the front rotors and brake shoes (the first year!), replace two window motors and regulators, replace the power steering pump, rack & pinion unit, battery, CD player, factory dry rotted tires, and the air bag light keeps coming on. The car looks brand new inside and out, is regularly maintenance, has few passengers (no kids), is driven carefully and has few miles on it. A mechanic said you have a 50/50 chance on getting a good one. Guess which % I was in? Please, don't buy one!"
Just a 50/50 chance of getting a good Focus? Why would a mechanic think that? I read the first 12 reviws. The very next:
"I bought this car at 20k miles. At 30k, it needed new brakes and completely rebuilt calipers. The mechanic told me that it was very common for the factory installed plastic calipers to fail at 30k miles. The car is now at 60k miles and has gone through 3 sets of brakes (I do not drive like a maniac at all) 4 sets of tires, and 3 stereos. The factory-installed 6-disc changer on this car is a piece of junk and fails constantly. Recently, the engine has started leaking copious amounts of oil. With all of these problems, I have been told that they are common with the Focus (especially the 2002) but not with other cars in its class like the Toyotas. No pickup, bad car."
The very next:
"I bought my Focus SE used; it was only a year old - just off a fleet lease in 2003. What got me to buy the car initially was the smooth/comfortable ride for such a small car and the awesome sound system. It was just fun to drive. I'm going into my 3rd year with this car (31,500 miles) and problems are arising already. So far: CD/stereo volume control seldom works, 3 out of the 4 heat/AC fan speeds don't work, the AC doesn't work at all, the fan whines & sputters when it does "work", no power to extra outlet, trunk lid closes shut 1/2 the time. It's becoming more & more clear to me why Toyota & Honda sales are rising and American car companies sales are declining. I see a Toyota in my future."
The very next:
We bought this car as students, and chose the wagon because we took lots of road trips and camped a lot. The car is very roomy for cargo storage, and the roof rack has come in handy more than once. The ergonomics of the dash and radio are great, the fuel economy is good. Our issues with the car have really been in the quality of the build rather than in its design. Front springs broke at 50K, one spark plug stopped firing at 30K (covered by warranty), we've gone through three sets of tires despite regular alignment and rotations, brakes are small and wear away quickly, and rear license plate light fell out at about 22K miles. Rear window no longer goes up if it gets put down.
The very next, not as negative but not exactly a ringing endorsement::
"My wife and I replaced my old SUV with a compact to help alleviate rising fuel costs. The car is not all that bad to drive, and we've yet to have any problems. Well, except for three (3): 1. it can only get 20 m.p.g in city driving; 2. the front left tire cannot hold air and we had all four tires replaced at point of sale; 3. the trunk lid opens at inconvenient times. The sticker claims the EPA fuel rating is 26/30, city/hwy. That in and of itself isn't great for a compact, but 20 m.p.g or even less surprised me. Still, the purchase price was fair and the dealer treated us with respect. Time will tell if we're willing to buy another Ford or go back to Toyota."
The very next:
"Good gas mileage, acceptable performance, not too uncomfortable, but pretty unreliable; seems to break down every other month after two years."
Are you keeping track? That was the first five reviews. Then we find a (fairly) satisfied customer:
"Even 5 years on, when I looked for a small car to buy the Focus stood out. The best aspects are a unique style inside and out, a user friendly interior and seating position, the best handling of any non-sport compact but a comfortable suspension worthy of a larger car. Don't worry, I say this having test driven the Corolla, Civic and Golf. On the downside, the fuel economy is not as good as it should be for a small car, the reliability is acceptable, but not bullet-proof and there are a few annoyances that are easily overshadowed by the good points."
Reliability is "acceptable!" Woo-hoo!! At leasst that guy will buy another Ford, maybe, someday. Here's a much, much happier customer:
"My baby sleeps outside every night and never complains. She doesn't cough or sputter when the weather gets cold. She doesn't blow her top and get freaky when it gets really hot. Gently she carries me daily mile after mile. It has the comfort and control of a finely tuned high performance car. I fear she has only one fault that I can find, with her front end as low to the ground it leaves the radiator and condenser sitting ducks for any small creature with a death wish. My only hope is that they redesign the protection of these by perhaps a deflector or stronger bracket.With that said, my Focus has been the most dependable car I've ever owned ... I LOVE HER!"
I'm glad he likes his car but I think he needs to go out on a date with a real girl. This guy likes his Focus, too:
"This is the best car I've bought so far. Besides the fact that it's very fun to drive, it handles the road very well and has tons of storage space. I have made many trips to Ikea and have fit very large boxes in my car, while other people next to me in pick-up trucks had a hard time fitting smaller boxes in their trucks. It's great on gas (about 30 miles average, more on the freeway) and has plenty of horsepower. I would recommend this car to anybody who likes the convenience of a wagon and the sportiness of the Focus."
However, he also went on to say:
"Better manufacturer brakes, which don't last too long. I got premium brakes at PepBoys later, and they work just fine."
After another note or two from relatively satisfied customers, we find this gem:
"Our company owns three 2002's. One blew engine after 1700 miles. Hose clamp failed, waited 3 weeks for replacement motor under warranty. Tranny valve went out in another car @ 22000 miles. Now this same car is needing a new tranny @ 57000miles. All 3 have trunk release problems, eat tires and rattle a lot. All of these cars have been maintained to Ford specs and dealership service. No more Ford's for us. The jokes are still alive and well, Found On the Road Dead & Fix Or Repair Daily."
What are 2002 Corolla owners saying? I looked at the first 12 reviews there, too. The very first reviewer has a problem:
"This is an okay car that gets good gas mileage. It started burning oil at around 85,000 miles, and is now going through a quart every 1,000 miles - not what I'd expect from a Toyota. It handles okay, but not as well as my '99 Ford Contour, and is really underpowered. Does not do well in snow, but it does start up reliably, even in subzero temps."
Can't win 'em all. Maybe it's a cheap fix - he ought to get it looked at and I'd recommend different tires if he's having snow handling issues. The very next reviewer is satisfied, if uninspired:
"This corolla S is not the most exciting, but compared to my other cars (audi/bmw) is built superior. In 33K, it has required ZERO maintenance costs. Just oil changes and it gets 30mpg mix driving. The S version is much nicer and the interior is pretty good. Handling is only ok. Resale value is very high. Great student car."
And the quality is OK on this one but watch out for the 3-speed automatic (available on the CE only, I guess):
"Another typically efficient Corolla from Toyota - with the glaring exception of the 3-speed autobox. It's good for shuttling around town, but venture out onto your local Interstate and the car gets way too noisy and thirsty. A compact car such as this should average far better than 25mpg. So go for the 4-speed auto every time. You'll save yourself a lot of fuel and possibly your sanity too."
Not, "Don't buy a Corolla," just "don't buy one equipped with a 3-speed." The next is a pretty happy Corolla owner:
"At 82,000 miles This little car is an around winner. I bought it in 2001 and I have never had any problems with it. I replaced the original cheap Goodyear tires the first month because I got tired of sliding all over the road in the rain. This is without a doubt the most dependable transportation car I have ever owned."
So was the next:
"Owned this car for over a year and I really can't find anything bad to say about it!!! Purhaps a little more leg room for back seat passengers,otherwise a great buy."
Then a solid endorsement of the brand:
"The Toyota Corolla is the best car I've owned. It has excellent fuel economy and the vehicle is very reliable. The next vehicle I purchase will be either a Toyota Corolla or a Camry."
As was the next:
"Owned the LE three years now, and just change oil and add gas occasionally! My roads are secondary, usually, so I can normally get 40 to 44 MPG (55 MPH). I researched before buying, and know I made the right choice. The ONLY complaint is that the car needs either a six-speed, or more HP. Even a seasoned manual transmission driver (all my life) can still kill the engine at times. It just does not have a low enough first gear! I am 55 years old and this will be my last commuter, it is built that well. Just keep clean oil in it, and pay attention to coolant change-outs. You will not be disappointed."
And the next:
"I got this car to travel weekly between my home near New Orleans and my new job in Texas, 326 miles each way on the weekends. Am getting 39 miles at 70 mpg on highway, no problems at all. I am very tall and need seat to go back farther, other than that am fully satisfied. My last four vehicles have been Toyotas, super dependable, never in shop."
The next review ranked it "10's" across the board but only had this to say:
"There was a problem with my leather interior on the doors, but the manufacturer replaced it."
I guess he liked it. Next:
"Amazing little car it gets 39 MPG with 5 speed manual transmission. Excellent commuter. I paid $11,800 for this jewel brand new and it has been a very reliable automobile. It's going on 60K miles and no problem. It has Air Conditioning but no power windows."
"Amazing" and "jewel." I guess he likes it. The next guy has buyer's remorse:
"Reasonably comfortable, utilitarian vehicle. However, the fuel efficiency has not been impressive. I will probably purchase an American car next, because: 1. Their engineering and design teams are making substantial progress toward reestablishing themselves as innovators. 2. The aggressive discounting by the American automobile companies has made their cars an unmatched value. Can you tell that I regret the purchase and wish I'd bought a far- superior -- and cheaper -- American car, instead?"
But even he didn't cite any reliability issues or other problems. Gee, Ed, was that your review? I also fail to see how that guy thought the Americans were reestablishing themselves as innovators in '02, when the only hybrid available was a Toyota Prius. Maybe in '02, Chrysler was bringing back a "new, more formal roofline." Next, another happy customer:
"I bought this car as a commuter and was glad when the only one left on the lot was the S model. This is my first Toyota and I will definitely buy another one in the future. I highly recommend the S model for the sportier feel and added amenities. This is a daily driver that I put 100 miles per day on."
Is every owner joyously happy with their Toyota? Well, no, but most are and they whole-heartedly endorse Toyotas.. And a couple of Focus owners are pretty happy. But in all these reviews, the thing that stands out are the ones who swear they won't buy that make again - and that's only found in the Focus reviews. None of the Toyota reviewers slammed the brand like that. Moving up to 2004, 3 out of the first 20 Focus reviews cite serious reliability issues, only 1 of the Toyota reviews mentions serious disapointment (and that was fuel economy).
And I'm really shocked by the number of people who need brake work by 30K miles (several Chevy models are like that, too). All of my Toyotas are '99-'01s and only one (the one with 124K miles) has needed any brake work at all (that's right, original PADS on Toyotas with 69K, 79K and 95K miles). And NO problems on any of them. And by NO, I mean NO. All the little switches and accessories work, the windows power up and down at full speed, there's no odd mechanical noises (standing next to them when idling, you can hardly tell they're running), no buzzing in the speakers. And they all hit their EPA fuel economy rating or do better.
What's my next car? An '09 Prius. Or maybe an Accord Diesel.

Which is good because you'll need the remaining $1500 for repairs. You'll be replacing the brakes within the first three years.
And I'm not sure just how you're getting those numbers (Corolla is 2 to 4mpg better) for fuel economy because that's certainly not what I'm finding.
FuelEconomy.gov Sticks: 2006 Focus, 2.0L, 5M, EPA combined 26, user reported 29.9, 8 reports. 2006 Focus 2.3L, 5M, EPA combined 23, user reported 27, 1 report. 2006 Corolla 1.8L, 5M, EPA combined 31, user reported 36.4, 16 reports
With sticks, user reports put the Corolla nearly 7mpg ahead.
Automatics: 2006 Focus, 2.0L, 4A, EPA combined 25, user reported 25, 5 reports. 2006 Corolla 1.8L, 4A, EPA combined 29, user reported 32.6, 24 reports.
With autos, again, the Corolla has about a 7mpg lead.
The '05s were a bit closer, with the Corolla having a 5 to 6mpg lead.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Actually I never got screwed, I was the Group Sales Manager, we were the ones doing the screwing. We always made a higher gross on our import brands and gave lower trade prices. LOL
When you sell your own cars do you do a 'trade through' at the dealership where you are buying your next car?
mike

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.