Ford Shop CD's - Free Download!!! - Page 2

You missed one point you made "for purchase" seemed to get overlooked. As Ed
points out, this information IS freely available... it's just not -  "free".

A tome filled with technical data is no different from a Dean Koontz novel.
*Somone* was paid to write the info.... someone was paid to assemble the
info.... and someone gets paid to put in print or on a disc... This stuff
could be included in the price of the technology... but that just drives the
price up all across the board. Those of us that "need" the documentation pay
for it... and that is included in the price that we charge down the line...
Like I said... there is no free lunch.

I have no problem at all with someone possessing the same book that I
have.... What I don't see is why he should expect it for "free" when it
consumes a significant part of my budget...

FWIW... once a month I receive the latest available "current" service DVDs.
Clearly marked "not for resale", I have the worlds most expensive drink
coasters. On occasion, a "current" manual (red DVD - updated monthly) will
become and "archived" manual (yellow DVD - rarely, if ever, updated)....
During a recent computer system upgrade, one of our yellow, archived DVDs
went missing (quite probably sitting in Dells "what do we do with these"
pile). The cost to replace this DVD LEGALLY? Only $3500 in canadian
loonies....

Thanks for your concern, though....

Afterthought... years ago, I was self-employed... I did well, but I'm no
businessman and my heart has always been in my toolbox - not in my
accounting books. The most important lesson I learned in over 15 years of
self employment - electrical wire is something I bought by the roll so I
could give it away by the foot....

You must be the only Ford mechanic not selling the old DVDs on EBAY....

Ed

not everyone is honest, but it is nice to know that not only is Jim honest,
but he is willing to help others with his vast amount of knowledge without
trying to make a fortune off of it.

You guys are going to embarrass me.... I didn't think that honesty was
"optional".

A day in my life... hectic as it is.... It isn't rare for me to "pooch" a
decision.... and I have come up with some real stinkers.... Dealer principal
asks "What @sshole thought that up?".... I cannot tell a lie... I only ask
for the opportunity to explain myself and the guidance needed to make things
right.

But when it comes to things that should be a simple moral decision..... no
brainer... The truth doesn't require a memory. And the right thing is all
any of us ever want to have happen to us.

Isn't it a sad statement when people find honesty surprising?

the way i look at it Jim, the only thing i have is my good name.
i ain't got a pot to pee in cause i am honest, but when a special load needs
to be delivered, i am the one called, cause the shipper knows the whole load
will be delivered in one piece, for the price i quote with no hidden fees,
and when i say it will be there.

"free".

Ford has no choice they must compile, and write this info.  Why - because
they
are legally obligated to cover vehicle repairs under warranty.  That cannot
be
done without service info.

If Ford dealerships are allowing Ford to charge them money for the repair
info
needed for warranty repairs - which Ford is supposed to reimburse I
understand -
then the Ford dealerships are run by idiots.  However that isn't the
customers
problem if the dealerships are so stupid they are willing to roll over and
be
screwed over by Ford.  This does not reverse the fact that the info has to
be
written and assembled and printed in order to support warranty.  So, don't
lecture me on the supposed "additional" costs of this data.  Those costs are
built
into the design and manufacture and warranty support phase of the vehicle.
By
the time the warranty period is complete the information IS essentially
"free" other
than the cost of distribution.  If someone outside of Ford wants to take a
copy of
it (past warranty model years of course) and use their own bandwidth and
server
space and such to handle the distribution then I can't see how Ford has
anything to
complain about.  They got paid for the service data and it is no skin off
their nose
if someone else is paying for it's distribution.  It actually helps them as
a matter of
fact since it relieves them of liability for the correctness of the data in
the service
data.

If some "mekanik" out there uses a pirate FSM and using it, does a brake job
on
a car, and the car then subsequently crashes, killing the driver, and the
inquest
reveals the crash was due to brake failure then whoo hoo!  Ford is scott
free off
the hook here even if the "mekanik" gets the Pope hisself to swear on a
stack of
bibles that he followed the repair procedures in the manual to the letter.
Ford merely
says the "mekanik" has no proof he was following authorized procedures
because
he has no proof of ownership of authorized repair literature!


It IS included.


Oh pleaze.  Years ago I worked as a tech writer for a company that wrote
training
info for Hewlett Packard products that hadn't yet been released to the
general public.
We basically were handed beta devices and the raw engineering notes and told
to
have at it.  Of course no fancy user manuals existed since HP's doc team
hadn't
completed them yet.  Prior to that I worked at a software company and worked
with the documentation team (although not on it)  I can tell you that there
is not any
device of any complexity where service info isn't written DURING the final
engineering
phases of the device.  It is done hand-in-hand with the engineers, and you
would not
realize the number of times the doc teams will come across something that
isn't
going to work with the general public, but the engineers have their head in
the clouds
and don't realize it.  That data is fed back from the doc team to the
engineers for them
to correct it.

If you want to see a poorly engineered complex product, find one that the
manufacturer
does not have repair instructions available even for their own service
network.


I already explained this.  He paid a significant chunk of HIS budget for
BUYING
the car.  Your just the hired gun hired to work on the vehicle that HE owns.
He
paid for this data and you didn't.  Just because perhaps he didn't bother
telling the
salesman when he bought the car that the FSM had to come with it, so that
you
could have it when you worked on the vehicle, doesen't mitigate the
principles
here.

If he supplied the FSM when he dropped off the car for you to work on, would
you give him a discount?  After all you don't have to pay for the repair
data
since he's giving it to you.

My father a couple years back bought a late model used Buick.  A month or so
later I found a copy of the FSM on Ebay for under $50 and bought it for him.
He stuck it in his trunk to have just in case something went wrong with the
car
and he had to call me for a sanity check.  I don't work on his cars for him,
he
does not want me to spend the time doing it and insists on taking them to
the
shop, but he does like to have me sanity check what the repair shops tell
him
they have to do.  I have also from time to time sourced used parts for his
cars
from the local wreckers when it wasn't critical for the part to be new (ie:
cast iron exhaust manifold, wheel rim, etc.)  I use his FSM for this, of
course.

Never once when he has taken his Buick in for service work has any of the
repair shops offered to give him a discount for the cost that they paid to
the
factory to get service data for his car.  Even when he shows them the FSM.
There has even been once or twice he's taken it to a shop for a procedure
and I know damn well they have performed it contrary to what the FSM
specified as I've seen the evidence after the fact.  No doubt they were
using
some aftermarket manual that said differently.

So it works both ways, buddy.  Before you get all holier than thou, if a
customer
brought in repair data for his car for you to work on, would you NOT charge
him
for the cost of that data you paid?  Yeah, right.

I've read many complaints over the years in the auto forums where people
have taken older vehicles into the dealership to have something fixed and
had the dealer tell them "We won't work on that it's too old, we don't have
service data for it"  I myself own (among my vehicles) an '84 Chevy with
the infamous computer controlled Rochester varajet carb. (and yes I maintain
it and yes I have repaired the carb before)  For my own amusement whenever
I have to buy manufacturer-specific parts for this car, (thank goodness that
GM
is willing to inventory some stuff for over 20 years) from the dealership,
on my
way to the parts counter I'll stop off at service and innocently ask if they
can
fix a drivability problem with my car, just to watch the service writer get
that deer-in-the-headlights look on their face.  I never let them suffer
that long,
of course, but it is really funny to hear some of the baloney that will fall
out of their mouths when they try to wriggle out of fixing it.

Because of this, there are a few smart new car buyers (generally the ones
who
buy new cars intending to drive them forever) who will tell the salesguy or
salesgirl that they will only sign on the dotted line for the
contract to buy the new car if a factory service manual is included with the
car.  They want to make darn sure that they don't get that line of baloney
from some service dept. in the future.  Never once read of anyone's new
car deal being killed because of doing this.


The sales receipt that you have for the original legal DVD is proof that you
have rights to have a copy, and you should have had no qualms about buying
a pirated copy to replace it.

Have you ever been through a software audit (ie: in the US it's the BSA or
SPA
that do them)?  These are the audits where the software company accuses you
of running pirated software and if you refuse to undergo the audit, they
will
sue you.  In the US these lawsuits are 100% successful and as a result when
the companies are struck by an audit, they always immediately comply then
if pirated software is discovered, they work out a deal with one of the
trade
groups - always much more expensive than if they bought the stuff legally,
as
punishment, but still costing less than a lawsuit.

These audits do NOT accept the existence of the original DVD or CD or
whatever
as proof of ownership.  They ONLY accept the original sales receipt for the
original software purchase.  (this is to prevent people from trying to
replace
all the pirated stuff with legal copies in between the time they get the
letter and
the day the auditors arrive)

So once more, don't weep to me about stupidly paying $3500 in canadian
loonies -
if you didn't know your rights, you don't have my sympathy.  Your original
sales receipt plus the unmarked pirate copy is proof you own it - A missing
original sales receipt plus the marked legal copy is NOT proof that you own
it.


Nothing wrong with that.  If I only need a foot of electrical wire, I'd
rather
pay $1 for it, than pay $10 for a roll of 100 feet, even though I know my
price-per-foot is a lot higher doing that.  Why - because I'm saving $9
-in cash-.  The "savings" of 90 cents for the foot by buying the $10 roll
is the same ethereal "savings" that retailers use to con stupid housewives
into buying the 10 pound box of black pepper that costs a lot more than
the 2 ounce container, because they are "saving money" by spending more
money.  You can go broke "saving money" that way.

Costco and Sams Club has made this into an art form, take note.

I fail to see the allegory to the service data, though.

Ted

Ted.... you're rambling... and it isn't pretty....

I love your logic though... we don't "allow" Ford to charge us for this
information.... It is part of being a dealership.... Like dirt, the sky and
wind... it is just "there".... And it get's better.... We sell a LOT
(oops... USED to sell) of 6.0 diesels (having been replaced by the 6.4)....
Being allowed to sell these vehicles comes with a price tag. First and
foremost is training.... Without taking the courses, attending the
classes.... there is no assumption of "technical proficiency"... Second....
the special tooling.... some of these special tools aren't much to write
home about.... others are ESSENTIAL.

In that light, you want everyone to be "me".... but without any effort.....
Good luck....

Amazingly, you worked as a technical writer... and, since you feel this
stuff should be "free" rather than "freely available", I congratulate you
for being thrifty and not insisting on remuneration for your efforts.... By
your accounting, all Dean has to do is sell one book and the rest is fair
game....

My "day" job is shop foreman for a medium sized, western Canadian dealer...
I am, many times, bombarded with calls from "customers" (using the term
loosley) looking for anything free they can get... I am expected (by the
"customer") to drop whatever I'm doing and dedicate myself to help him avoid
spending any money at all...

Even Chiltons and Motors charge money for reprinting Ford property....
perhaps we should just reprint one of their manuals in *.pdf and be done
with it????

As it stands... you are advocating "my" right to have all of your
knowledge.... and you must grant it to me for "free".  Conversely, I have
gained a mass of knowledge in the last almost 40 years.... and you are
"expecting" that I will deliver it for free on usenet....

Ted.... it's people like you that will have people like me just shut the
fuck up and let you furble around with manuals that base much of their
content on "assumed" knowledge.

Ford has made access to service publications freely available.... all you
have to do is just like if you want the latest issue of "Field and Stream"
or "Car and Driver".... pay the fee..... It don't get much simpler than
that. A book is a book is a book....

Ah yes, it's the old "I can't win a logical argument here so I'll try
to derail the discussion by switching to meaningless emotional
accusations using loaded words like 'rambling'"


6.4)....

OK well so since all those costs are too high for you to make any money
selling Fords anymore then why don't your dealership simply stop losing
all that money and switch to selling something else, like tractors?  Heh.


Ah yes, don't address the logical points I brought up just drag in another
meaningless emotional side issue.


This wasn't the topic under discussion but as long as we are dragging in
side
issues, well let's just have at it!

I'll go ahead and address this unrelated side issue.  Sure, I'm aware
that service shops get calls all the time from customers looking for free
advice on how to fix their cars.  I've waited in line at the parts counter
at the dealership for my $27.96 special part only available at the
dealership,
with the part number (which I looked up in advance) all ready to go, and
had to have 20 minutes of my life wasted waiting for the moron in front of
me
try to get the parts guy to explain to him how to tear down his cylinder
head
so he can install the $5 piston ring he's "considering" buying, or other
such
nonsense.

Your free to let your management know that if they are telling you to cater
to these moron customers that I for one will never shop at your
establishment
if I can help it.  Why?  Because those time-sucking-leechs out there not
only
suck your time away, they suck my time away while I wait for you to finish
being bled dry by them so you can sell me the part I need to finish the job
I have to do.  Or, so you can perform some service procedure (like
overhauling
a transmission which I am R&Ring, or a wheel alignment, or a tire
mount/dismount)
which requires tooling that is too costly, or too space-consumptive for it
to be
worthwhile for me to buy for my own personal use.

Most likely your management won't give a damn about what I say though
because they would immediatley assume I'd never be a customer for the
$21.99 oil changes, vehicle inspections, brake jobs, or whatever other
gravy maintainence jobs that your shop does to keep the bread on the
table.  And, they'd be right.

OK, now that we both feel better venting about time-wating-idiots, let's
get back to the discussion...


Why not?  I never found any use for a Chiltons better than lining the bottom
of a bird cage.  If Chiltons published in PDF then at least I could use
the CD it came on for a beer coaster which would be slightly more use
as I don't have a bird.


No, no.  Hold the horses there.  There is "information" and there is
"knowledge"

"Information" is what is in those repair manuals.  "knowledge" is what
is used to translate the heiroglyphics in the repair manuals and apply the
information to the actual car sitting there in the shop.

The repair procedure information that is generated during the design,
construction, and warranty period of the car is the free stuff that is
already paid for.  That is what -I- am talking about should be handed
out for free, and what the customer has a moral right to have.

BUT, if the customer does NOT have the knowledge to actually
USE that documentation to fix something on his or her car - well,
Ford or it's dealerships is in NO WAY obligated to sit there and
train them how to fix their car or interpret a vehicle service manual
that is understandable by your average mechanic.

You brought up selling the 6.4 diesels.  Well I will say this.  Those
classes you attended - if they covered "core diesel vehicle" knowledge,
well that core knowledge is available many other places.  You didn't
have to take a class from Ford for that.  You could have got it a lot
cheaper elsewhere, no doubt.  If I ever were to buy a diesel I would
not be attending core diesel classes to service it, because I am
a kinetic, not a visual, learner.  I'd get the core knowledge differently
than from a class.

OTOH if those classes were on the SPECIFICS of the 6.0 diesel,
well then, once more, if you had the diesel core knowledge already,
why then, you should have been able to pick up the 6.0 Ford diesel
factory service manual, and be able to read it and use it to repair.

I am aware that manufacturers like to use classes rather than letting
people self-learn.  After all that is what I did for HP was write those
classes.  There's reasons manufacturers use classes that have nothing
to do with learning.

I have nothing against people learning from taking classes, but do
not make the mistake of assuming the only way to gain knowledge
is to take a class.  Someone had to train the trainer, and someone
had to train the trainer's trainer, and so on and so on.  Work back
along the chain and eventually your going to get to the guy that
wasn't trained by anyone other than himself.

Now, as for -essential- tooling, you mentioned that.  Well let me
elaborate a bit on this.  A lot of times I hear people claim that there
are essential tools to doing a repair that are 'very expensive' and thus
it isn't cost-effective for the shadetree mechanic to do his own work.
There is some truth in this which is why it keeps getting repeated all
the time.  But, it is NOT all black and white and cut and dried like
many people say.  Let me try to illustrate this with an example.

As we are all aware regularly driven vehicles go out of alignment
over a period of years.  You have constant and strong stresses that
over time cause the vehicle body steel and the steel in the suspension
to slightly deform, thus even if you drive perfectly and never hit
a chuckhole or some such, over time toe will go off a few degrees.
You also have bushings and such in there that can deform.

Now, I know all about suspension geometry.  I know I could
set toe with a tape measure and set camber with a carpenters
level.  But I don't do this, because the super-expensive laser
sight alignment benches that the shops spend $50K on do a
more accurate job than I could at home, and they do it
a lot faster too.  They also aren't bothered by a wheel that has
a center cap that sticks out past where a level would hang, or
a garage floor that isn't exactly level, and they can take the
measurement points exactly in line with the axle and so on.  Instead
I go to the shop every couple years and sit twiddling my thumbs
for an hour while it gets aligned.  And if the tech forgets to set
the steering spoke or some such, I can go right back to the shop
and they can do it again.

In addition to this, if I happen to have a tire on the car get
worn down way early, when I go to the tire shop and bitch
for a warranty claim, they are going to likely claim the tire
wore out prematurely due to the car being out of alignment,
and I can wave around the alignment receipts to show them they
are full of BS.

So, this is a story where the "essential tool" people would
claim is a perfect illustration of why it's not worth it for a DIYer
to work on their own car due to tooling cost.

HOWEVER, I'll continue on.  One of my cars is a GM.  One day
it's steering column got sick - the potmetal linkage in the column
to the key snapped.  It's a common problem with the tilt columns.
So common that there is a guy here that runs around and you can call
him and for $50 he will come to where you have your car parked
and zip, zip fix the column.

I DIDN'T call the column guy.  Instead, I bought the SnapOn tool
for $80 (which is only made by SnapOn) the "essential" tool that
is used to take these columns apart and fixed it myself.  On the surface,
it seems like stupidity.  Why spend more money for a repair?  The "essential
tool" argument seems to also be in operation here as well.

Well, this is why as I said it is not always cut-and-dried that the
expense of the essential tool makes it more cost effective to pay the
mechanic to do the work.  Sure, I may have lost $30.  But, if I -had-
called the column guy, I would have had to take time out of my day,
during the day, to wait for him to show up, show him where the car
was, give him access to it, and the whole day that I had scheduled
him I would essentially not have the use of the car as I couldn't
just run out to it and jump into it and drive off somewhere, as he
might show up then.  And if he had a problem and couldn't make it
that day, I would have had to reschedule and it would have tied up
the car again.

By buying the tool I could do the repair at home, in the evening, on
my own time, when I felt like doing it.  Additionally when the linkage
snapped, it of course did it when I was out, so I had to have AAA
tow the car.  If I had towed it to a garage, without the job being
scheduled in advance it would have certainly sat for a few days.  If
I had got the column guy to fix the car at home, I would have had to
take off work for that day to be home waiting for him.

Those intangibles, the ability to schedule the car on my time, and
not having to sit around twiddling my thumbs waiting for a service
guy, are worth far more than the $30 to me.

This is why the "essential tool" making DIY repairs not cost effective
argument is a weak one.


Every service manual in every industry assumes the reader has a core
competence in that industry.  And it has always been this way ever since
technical manuals were invented.  This wasn't what I was talking about
and is yet another side issue your dragging into the discussion.


And once more you completely ignore my prior statements that a fee for
distribution costs is OK, but a fee that views such documentation as
a profit center and gouges the customer for it, is piracy.

It does not cost $2,000.00 to distribute a manual.  And the Internet
and doc formats like PDF have today, reduced distribution costs for
a manual to next to nothing.  Ford likely spends more money on it's
Internet connection paying for spammer's spam to be received by it's
mailservers, then it would by letting anyone download a copy of a service
manual if they wanted it.

Ted

Ah yes, it's the old "I can't win a logical argument here so I'll try
to derail the discussion by switching to meaningless emotional
accusations using loaded words like 'rambling'"


6.4)....

OK well so since all those costs are too high for you to make any money
selling Fords anymore then why don't your dealership simply stop losing
all that money and switch to selling something else, like tractors?  Heh.


Ah yes, don't address the logical points I brought up just drag in another
meaningless emotional side issue.


This wasn't the topic under discussion but as long as we are dragging in
side
issues, well let's just have at it!

I'll go ahead and address this unrelated side issue.  Sure, I'm aware
that service shops get calls all the time from customers looking for free
advice on how to fix their cars.  I've waited in line at the parts counter
at the dealership for my $27.96 special part only available at the
dealership,
with the part number (which I looked up in advance) all ready to go, and
had to have 20 minutes of my life wasted waiting for the moron in front of
me
try to get the parts guy to explain to him how to tear down his cylinder
head
so he can install the $5 piston ring he's "considering" buying, or other
such
nonsense.

Your free to let your management know that if they are telling you to cater
to these moron customers that I for one will never shop at your
establishment
if I can help it.  Why?  Because those time-sucking-leechs out there not
only
suck your time away, they suck my time away while I wait for you to finish
being bled dry by them so you can sell me the part I need to finish the job
I have to do.  Or, so you can perform some service procedure (like
overhauling
a transmission which I am R&Ring, or a wheel alignment, or a tire
mount/dismount)
which requires tooling that is too costly, or too space-consumptive for it
to be
worthwhile for me to buy for my own personal use.

Most likely your management won't give a damn about what I say though
because they would immediatley assume I'd never be a customer for the
$21.99 oil changes, vehicle inspections, brake jobs, or whatever other
gravy maintainence jobs that your shop does to keep the bread on the
table.  And, they'd be right.

OK, now that we both feel better venting about time-wating-idiots, let's
get back to the discussion...


Why not?  I never found any use for a Chiltons better than lining the bottom
of a bird cage.  If Chiltons published in PDF then at least I could use
the CD it came on for a beer coaster which would be slightly more use
as I don't have a bird.


No, no.  Hold the horses there.  There is "information" and there is
"knowledge"

"Information" is what is in those repair manuals.  "knowledge" is what
is used to translate the heiroglyphics in the repair manuals and apply the
information to the actual car sitting there in the shop.

The repair procedure information that is generated during the design,
construction, and warranty period of the car is the free stuff that is
already paid for.  That is what -I- am talking about should be handed
out for free, and what the customer has a moral right to have.

BUT, if the customer does NOT have the knowledge to actually
USE that documentation to fix something on his or her car - well,
Ford or it's dealerships is in NO WAY obligated to sit there and
train them how to fix their car or interpret a vehicle service manual
that is understandable by your average mechanic.

You brought up selling the 6.4 diesels.  Well I will say this.  Those
classes you attended - if they covered "core diesel vehicle" knowledge,
well that core knowledge is available many other places.  You didn't
have to take a class from Ford for that.  You could have got it a lot
cheaper elsewhere, no doubt.  If I ever were to buy a diesel I would
not be attending core diesel classes to service it, because I am
a kinetic, not a visual, learner.  I'd get the core knowledge differently
than from a class.

OTOH if those classes were on the SPECIFICS of the 6.0 diesel,
well then, once more, if you had the diesel core knowledge already,
why then, you should have been able to pick up the 6.0 Ford diesel
factory service manual, and be able to read it and use it to repair.

I am aware that manufacturers like to use classes rather than letting
people self-learn.  After all that is what I did for HP was write those
classes.  There's reasons manufacturers use classes that have nothing
to do with learning.

I have nothing against people learning from taking classes, but do
not make the mistake of assuming the only way to gain knowledge
is to take a class.  Someone had to train the trainer, and someone
had to train the trainer's trainer, and so on and so on.  Work back
along the chain and eventually your going to get to the guy that
wasn't trained by anyone other than himself.

Now, as for -essential- tooling, you mentioned that.  Well let me
elaborate a bit on this.  A lot of times I hear people claim that there
are essential tools to doing a repair that are 'very expensive' and thus
it isn't cost-effective for the shadetree mechanic to do his own work.
There is some truth in this which is why it keeps getting repeated all
the time.  But, it is NOT all black and white and cut and dried like
many people say.  Let me try to illustrate this with an example.

As we are all aware regularly driven vehicles go out of alignment
over a period of years.  You have constant and strong stresses that
over time cause the vehicle body steel and the steel in the suspension
to slightly deform, thus even if you drive perfectly and never hit
a chuckhole or some such, over time toe will go off a few degrees.
You also have bushings and such in there that can deform.

Now, I know all about suspension geometry.  I know I could
set toe with a tape measure and set camber with a carpenters
level.  But I don't do this, because the super-expensive laser
sight alignment benches that the shops spend $50K on do a
more accurate job than I could at home, and they do it
a lot faster too.  They also aren't bothered by a wheel that has
a center cap that sticks out past where a level would hang, or
a garage floor that isn't exactly level, and they can take the
measurement points exactly in line with the axle and so on.  Instead
I go to the shop every couple years and sit twiddling my thumbs
for an hour while it gets aligned.  And if the tech forgets to set
the steering spoke or some such, I can go right back to the shop
and they can do it again.

In addition to this, if I happen to have a tire on the car get
worn down way early, when I go to the tire shop and bitch
for a warranty claim, they are going to likely claim the tire
wore out prematurely due to the car being out of alignment,
and I can wave around the alignment receipts to show them they
are full of BS.

So, this is a story where the "essential tool" people would
claim is a perfect illustration of why it's not worth it for a DIYer
to work on their own car due to tooling cost.

HOWEVER, I'll continue on.  One of my cars is a GM.  One day
it's steering column got sick - the potmetal linkage in the column
to the key snapped.  It's a common problem with the tilt columns.
So common that there is a guy here that runs around and you can call
him and for $50 he will come to where you have your car parked
and zip, zip fix the column.

I DIDN'T call the column guy.  Instead, I bought the SnapOn tool
for $80 (which is only made by SnapOn) the "essential" tool that
is used to take these columns apart and fixed it myself.  On the surface,
it seems like stupidity.  Why spend more money for a repair?  The "essential
tool" argument seems to also be in operation here as well.

Well, this is why as I said it is not always cut-and-dried that the
expense of the essential tool makes it more cost effective to pay the
mechanic to do the work.  Sure, I may have lost $30.  But, if I -had-
called the column guy, I would have had to take time out of my day,
during the day, to wait for him to show up, show him where the car
was, give him access to it, and the whole day that I had scheduled
him I would essentially not have the use of the car as I couldn't
just run out to it and jump into it and drive off somewhere, as he
might show up then.  And if he had a problem and couldn't make it
that day, I would have had to reschedule and it would have tied up
the car again.

By buying the tool I could do the repair at home, in the evening, on
my own time, when I felt like doing it.  Additionally when the linkage
snapped, it of course did it when I was out, so I had to have AAA
tow the car.  If I had towed it to a garage, without the job being
scheduled in advance it would have certainly sat for a few days.  If
I had got the column guy to fix the car at home, I would have had to
take off work for that day to be home waiting for him.

Those intangibles, the ability to schedule the car on my time, and
not having to sit around twiddling my thumbs waiting for a service
guy, are worth far more than the $30 to me.

This is why the "essential tool" making DIY repairs not cost effective
argument is a weak one.


Every service manual in every industry assumes the reader has a core
competence in that industry.  And it has always been this way ever since
technical manuals were invented.  This wasn't what I was talking about
and is yet another side issue your dragging into the discussion.


And once more you completely ignore my prior statements that a fee for
distribution costs is OK, but a fee that views such documentation as
a profit center and gouges the customer for it, is piracy.

It does not cost $2,000.00 to distribute a manual.  And the Internet
and doc formats like PDF have today, reduced distribution costs for
a manual to next to nothing.  Ford likely spends more money on it's
Internet connection paying for spammer's spam to be received by it's
mailservers, then it would by letting anyone download a copy of a service
manual if they wanted it.

Ted

Public libraries (especially online ones) are your friend.  Go to:

http://search.ebscohost.com/login.aspx?authtype=url,uid

Enter "lib" as your name and "access" as your password.

Go to the Auto Repair Reference Center.

Service manuals are available for just about all cars and years.

Good catch.... don't just "go" to your library... "support" it... In some of
these cash strapped times, it is the least likeliest places that are
suffering more and suffering in silence.

Knowledge is power....

I don't know about where you live, but here our taxes support our public
library, and the burden is shared equally by all tax payers...

Jim is in canada.

Our various levels of government allocate money for libraries, too... After
the building and the librarians are paid, there's not much left for
expansion or acquisition - especially in small towns.

In a perfect world, there would no need for that "little bit extra"....

I never even knew there was such a thing as an online library.
Good stuff on there.  Now if only they had repair info for my Bobcat
Skid loader that I am rebuilding.....

Thanks for the link

George

------------------

wrote:

Here's a service manual for some skid loader engines (not sure if
this is relevant to Bobcats):

http://tinyurl.com/35qobo

http://web.ebscohost.com/serrc/viewarticle?data=dGJyMPPp44rp2%2fdV0%2bnjisfk5Ie46bdIt6q1Sbak63nn5KyL4%2bjwe76nsEewra1Krqa1OLCwsUi4qK44zsOkjPDX7Ivf2fKB7eTnfLuusUm3qLFNtaukhN%2fk5VXj5KR84LPxUeac8nnls79mpNfsVbCqsUq1rbNMpNztiuvX8lXu2uRe8%2bLqbOPu8gAA&hid=116

http://web.ebscohost.com/serrc/pdf?vid=12&hid=116&sid=d97ff069-9d45-4bcc-bb38-4aa61b94e588%40sessionmgr107