Fuel economy myths

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I don't understand the penchant for quoting L/100 km, as is common throughout Continental Europe.
Km/l would be much more useful.
DAS
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Dori A Schmetterling wrote:

Its irrelevant, mpg, l/km and km/l are all equally informative and give you exactly the same information. Its a matter of personal preference. I see what youre thinking though.
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It is a bit strange at first, but after a number of years I've gotten used to it.
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It certainly has improved for the larger cars and engines. I do agree that for smaller cars and engines there has been little improvement in fuel mileage, but small engine power has increased significantly.
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who wrote:

So what you're saying is we're really going the wrong way?
Honda Civic...
1985    34mpg 1995    38mpg 1999    30mpg 2007    29mpg (fueleconomy.gov)
Why would we want to decrease fuel economy, for a only slightly better working car?
Thats probably only one car though, i don't have time to do others :)
I would guess pickups have hovered somewhat the same... maybe only slighly better with smaller efi engines doing the same job and making more power.
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But is this really the same car? The name may still be the same, but the Civic today is closer in size to the Accord of some years ago. We keep asking for (and getting) larger cars. I'm not sure how many cars you can directly compare having the same name and being interior size over a 15 year span. Crown Vic? LeSabre?
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Picasso wrote:

We're making choices that result in lower fuel mileage.

Yet there is the new Honda Fit, which is smaller than the Civic and gets better mileage. And the Civic hybrid, Prius, etc.

Larger cars and more power.

It's a common trend. You start with a small car. Over time, successive generations tend to get bigger, more powerful and less fuel efficient.

I think pickup trucks have gotton larger over time, with more power, too.
Jeff
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The 2007 Civic is the size of a 1999 Accord.

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I'm basing my comments on the history of my own total fuel mileage of similar driving with: -1948 Austin A40 -1949 Pontiac 6 cyl flat head. -1956 VW 1.1L -1961 VW 1.3L 1,600 lb. -1963 Chev II 6cyl -1970 Datsun 1.6L 510 1,900 lb. -1986 Chrysler 2.5L LeBaron -1995 Chrysler 3.3L Concorde -2001 Chrysler 2.7L V6 Sebring
The improvement in mileage of my last 3 cars over the 1949 Pontiac, which was in first class running condition, is just amazing. The Pontiac was typical of that ERA. Over a 50% improvement on the highway and 60 to 90% improvement in city driving. The biggest city improvement is in winter time. The 1963 Chev II was in the middle of the my larger cars for mileage. The last three mid sized cars give similar mileage to the older small engined ones, but much more consistent on the highway in the winter. The Concorde is still the best I've had on the highway, yes better than the Sebring at 110kmph/70mph. I keep track of all my fuel used and mileage. That sure is easier now that I carry a Palm.
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Most of us want higher fuel economy. If you build it, it will be sold.
Sure, lots of soccer moms ply the highways and byways of the country in Suburbans and the like, but they would LIKE to have a Suburban that gets better fuel economy. If they have to give up the Suburban to get the economy, they'll pass on the economy. give them the form-factor of a Suburban and better fuel economy, and they will beat the doors down at the dealership to get one.
There is no "forcing" required. All you have to do is build the damn thing and people will buy it. Maybe not everyone, but enough.

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on Thursday 04 October 2007 04:23 pm, someone posing as Jeff Strickland took a rock and etched into the cave:

Bingo!
If I have to choose between being cramped up in a subcompact Prius or Accord or Volt vs. being able to not have my heat touch the roof of the truck in a Suburban I'll take the Suburban/Silverado/Yukon/F150/Ram 2500...
...until they make a car/truck that gets the kind of mileage of a Prius but is not a matchbox in size, then I'll keep driving the large cars.
I recently got my dad's '99 Sebring. It is a fun subcompact car, but my goodness it is small! And it only gets about 5 MPG better on the highway than my Avalanche.
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I already knew that the current (NHW20) Prius was classified as a mid-size but I had to look up the other 3. The Accord and Sebring are both also mid-size and I am not sure about the Volt but if you call mid-size cars subcompacts then what do you consider a true subcompact like a Yaris or Aveo? It would seem that you would probably rank them right up there with a key slot. Along the same lines a full size would be a compact car to you. Assuming all of this is true what would you consider to be a full size car? Perhaps a stretch limo version of either a Crown Victoria or a Delta 88? I am just trying to understand your post better.
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on Thursday 04 October 2007 08:44 pm, someone posing as Daniel Who Wants to Know took a rock and etched into the cave:

Bullshit! They're compacts like my old Maxima.

sorry - those are sardine cans. Never trust a car that is shorter than i am tall.

Yeah, that about sums it up.

My Great Aunt had a '77 Lincoln Continental Town Coupe. That was a nice full-size car.
I loved driving it.

Crown Vics are nice cars. The modern versions are a bit small but they'll do. I see several Interceptor models in the parking lot where I work.
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On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 21:14:59 -0700, PerfectReign

Maxima was not a compact either.

But even today's fullsized lincoln is not that size anymore

And the crown vic is still a relic of years past. It and the Chrysler 300 are the only "close to full sise" full sise cars on the american market.
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clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:

Wow, my Maxima easily sits 4 adults with lots of legroom. I can't put the seat all the way back and still be able to shift either. I have yet to find a GM that I could say that about.
b
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Either you are very tall, or you have not sat in many GM products. All of mine would easily seat me too far back for my 5'8" frame. All very comfortably seat 4, and some actually did well with 5. Others - not so good with 5, but those should never have had a 5th seat belt anyway.
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Mike Marlow wrote:

I've had 13 (I think) GM's, and the seat was never far enough back for me. Japanese cars seem to use the internal space better, I have no other explanation.
b
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You must have had cars from a different GM than me! My Japanese Datsun 510s had adequate driver space for me, but the more recent low end Japanese cars don't. No it's not my extra 20 lbs that is the problem.
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who wrote:

I do second that. Like I said, the crown vics seats just don't seem to go back all the way, now the models with the more bucket style seat do, but i'm not sure why. (Maybe just hte design of the seat).
The half tons are fine, as the seat is higher to begin with...
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