Funny thing...

I bought a program 2003 Mercury Grand Marquis on Feb 9th..... I wrote on the purchase and sales agreement a couple of things before I took delivery.
1. The car is to have a four wheel alignment
2. Tires to be rotated and balanced 3. Codes to be cleared from the computer.
I picked up the car asked if the things were done. Salesman says yes, I ask for the RO's he says they are in the system not to worry..... Ya right...
I bring the car home. Car sits in the garage for a week. I go out yesterday. One tire is flat and another is just about dead.......
I fill up the two tires go to my garage... They pull off the wheels, the two tires that are loosing air have cheap garage plugs. I have them put on the proper patch, I then look at the front tires they look like they have been on the front of the car since it was made, never rotated. The backs look great...... They put the car on the rack, the TOE is out.
So I have an appointment with the service manager to talk about the issues. This should be fun.....
Car has 20k on the odo, was part of a rental fleet in Ocala Florida. Other than the tires and the alligment and if they didn't do the codes I can do that myself just take the negative cable out for the night the car is fine....
Jake
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Your first clue that the salesman was not on the up and up should have been when he told you a USED vehicle, previously owned by rental car company, was a program car. The only owner of true 'Program vehicle' was Ford Motor company, not Ford Credit or a fleet or retain car company. ;)
mike hunt
M Hayes529 wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com wrote:

Well Mike, i hope you can enlighten us a little more about this whole issue. I see the words "program car" batted around a lot in car adds. So, an off lease vehicle from ford credit is not a program car? Is a dealer demo car a program car? No fleet buybacks or leases are program cars? What are the warranty issues on a program car Vs lease return or used?
So, if the only True program cars are cars that Ford motor co personally used internally, that seems like there would not be many around. What about lemon buy backs? could they be resold as a program car? Tell us the whole story.
Bob
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ford dealer are loose with the term 'Program Vehicle,' using the term to apply to ANY vehicle they buy at Ford sponsored auction. That is NOT the case. The only owner of true 'Program Vehicle' is Ford Motor company, not Ford Credit or any fleet or rental car company. A true PV has a label on the window that states 'The only previous owner of this vehicle was Ford Motor Company.' Dealer domo's are untitled new vehicles used by the dealer and not a PV. Dealer loners are in reality free rental cars, part of a dealers fleet, owned by the dealerships. Off lease vehicles are USED cars that just happened to be owned by Ford Credit, but not Ford Motor Company. Leases and other 'buy backs' are owned by Ford Credit, not FMC and are NOT program cars, since they were sold to a customer and that fact is disclosed at the sale. Manufactures can NOT sell vehicles to ANYONE except their dealers. Fleets, both government and commercial, rental car companies as well as Ford Credit just like every retail buyer MUST buy their vehicle from a franchised dealer. About ten year ago FMC bought out dealerships in several markets so as to sell to large buyers. The Ford Dealers Association started litigation saying ownership by a manufacture was a violation of US franchise laws. The FDA won a case in court and Ford has to sell the dealerships. Fords new car warranty follows the vehicle from the in service date to the time mileage limit, regardless of previous owners except in the case of a 'Lemon Law' buy back. In that case the warranty is 12/12 BB, regardless of current mileage, even if there is only 500 miles on the clock.
mike hunt
BOB URZ wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com wrote:

seen i will bet a lot of cars being advertised as program cars don't fit the description your gave.
Personally, i am sick of the huge adds in the sunday paper with the low advertised price that only a one eyed disabled veteran that is a farm bureau member would qualify for. In my opinion, its a form of bait and switch. If they advertise rebates, they should all be listed separately by amount and qualifications. Not just a lump total amount very few (if any) people would qualify for all.
As far as the franchise bit goes, what's to stop ford from making a new separate brand different from ford or mercury and having factory only outlets for it? Could they get away with that?
The thing i see sad in the auto industry is the fading of GM's experiment Saturn. Unique product. Non hassle pricing. I think a LOT of people don't trust auto dealers. They may need a car, but they don't want to get hassled or get took. I think that's why the Internet auto shopping may get much bigger in the future. They cannot hijack your drivers license and wear you down in the sales office on the internet. They may be a lot of good straight shooter dealers out there. But i am sure there are many who are not.
Bob
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
You certainly are entitled to you opinion but even when one choose to purchase a vehicle though one of the on line services, and pays their fee of at least $250, the final point of sale will be a franchise dealer, period. HINT. Get the best price you can get from the on line service than take that deal to a local dealer and he will BEAT their price on the exact same vehicle by at least $250.
mike hunt
Bob Urz wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

It is a used car, but any remaining factory warranty still applies.

part of the "program".

On a program car, Ford was the original owner, but they transfer whatever's remaining.

work for Ford and so far I've bought three of them over the last two decades.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
BOB URZ wrote:

Used.
Used, most likely.

Used.
Remainder of factory warranty still applies.
If anyone else has been driving it around for more than maybe 50 miles on test-drives, it's used or at best has been used as a demonstration model.(not ever titled and under 1K miles, IMO)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I had the meeting with the Sales Manager and we had a nice chat...
1. I know the car was owned by either Hertz or someother rental place in Florida. Before I bought it I did the car fax thing. 2. I have the rest of the warranty until it runs out. 3. The car is going back into the shop on Tuesday and they are going to run it through the process they do to certify the car. The person that did the car in Nov no longer works there and I demanded it be done again in front of me, they agreed. 4. This car is going to get driven from 8:00AM till midnight everyday, LIVERY CAR...... 5. In three years it will be gone anyway....
Jake
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
An interesting FACT that not many people know , is some of the major rental companies do not chnage the oil filter at the specified mileage, just the oil. I have hired several entry level techs from rental companies who did the maintenance on these cars and they all reported the same thing, extended oil drain intervals, the cheapest oil available and NEVER change the filter. Reportedly too costly. All these cars went back to the auction while still in warranty so it was almost a zero risk factor for the company. The consumer and dealer that sells the car is left holding the bucket when the motor has an oil related failure. Would I ever drive an "x" rental now? No.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Unlike fleet vehicles that receive extensive maintenance because the owners must keep them in service for five years, due to depreciation tax laws, rental car companies can sell their vehicles after only one year of service or anytime after the next model year into date, WOF and still get the $400 fleet discount from the manufacture. Very few rental cars ever accumulate many miles and generally the only 'maintenance' they receive is pretty much toping of fluids and fixing thing that break. To a commercial or government fleet the vehicle is a 'tool' like any other they need to use in their 'business.' Vehicles, to a rental car company, is their' 'product,' like videos are to Blockbuster, to be acquired, rented then sold.
mike hunt
Brad Coon wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
When I worked for DC our corporate Regional Service Managers regularily cruised the auctions before opening to look at Rental vehicles. But Chrysler in Canada has a grey Oil Filter's from factory, And Dealers can only get white ones. Any Fleet vehicle over 12,000 km's with grey filters held warranty held until fleet company had auctions change oil. Didn't do much but at least the Company was tryiong to scare fleet's into maintenance.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Fleet DO the maintenance, don't confuse rental car company with corporate fleet cars. Neither of which are program cars, in any event.
mike hunt
deadbeat wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Well, According to the manufacturer. Rentals are fleet!

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Anyone can qualify for the fleet discount of $400, if they buy five or more vehicles in a year. Corporate and government fleets are a whole other animal vis-a-v rental car companies. There is no comparison to the manner in which each maintains their vehicles.
mike hunt
deadbeat wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.