Gas Tank Fill Location All Wrong

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wrote:


the
a
nuts.
No it doesen't. Gas pumps have vapor recovery sleeves on the nozzles that do this. If the pump handle is pulled full on the fuel rushes into the tank so fast that air can be trapped in the tank baffles. When the handle cuts off the first time, if time is then given for the trapped air to bubble out, more fuel can be put in the tank. The issue is more prevalent with some car and tank designs.
The law is there because there are some morons who don't understand this and will just keep pulling the handle until they have raw gas spraying back out of the fill hole. THAT is what your probably thinking about with the preventing of pollution. But that isn't a failure of the gas pump, it is a failure of the brains of the people doing the filling to understand any of this.
Ted
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Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

Stop trying to read minds. It doesn't work.
Try here: http://www.sbcapcd.org/edu/dont-top-off.htm

It depends. In New Jersey and Oregon, it is a way for the gas stations to get free gas out of the filler necks of their costumers.
Jeff

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wrote:

only
fist
for
A dumbed-down site for people who don't understand how their vehicle works.
I don't know about your car but on both of my Chrysler vans, the evap line comes off the top of the fuel tank, where the access to the fuel pump is. The line is run to the front of the car where the charcoal canister is along with the various vacuum valves that control it. Part of the line is run HIGHER than the fuel filler opening on the side of the van. So fail to see exactly how topping off will make the fuel level in the evap line rise above the level of the gas cap.
Furthermore, the entire evap system is sealed - and the evap recovery system vents into the intake manifold. I highly doubt any liquid gas that gets into the system is going to NOT be burned in the intake manifold.

Except that when Sweden studied that supposition, they found that there was no measuring error in gas dispensing when topping off UNLESS there was splashback from the gas filler pipe. See here:
http://www.nwml.gov.uk/Docs/Legislation/NMS%20Programme%20reports/Report%20vapour%20recovery.pdf
In other words, if you buy a gallon of fuel unless your topping off causes spashback, the amount of gas that is obtained by the station from recovering your vapors is not enough to reduce that gallon by any measurable amount.
In any case the only time I've been topped off in Oregon is when going to a gas station that only takes cash (ie: Arco) and the pump stops at something like $19.86 and the station attendant wants to make it an even $20 so they don't have to make change. And I don't generally buy gas from those stations, I buy from stations where I can use plastic, and I've never been topped off at one of those.
The real concern, as I ALREADY MENTIONED is morons being so agressive about topping off that they cause splashback. And, if you do the research you will find out that the biggest concern about splashback is the fear that the gas station evap. system will suck liquid fuel back into the vapor recovery system at the gas station, causing it damage. It's pretty clear that the FUD about damaging vehicle vapor recovery systems as a result of topping off is just that - FUD. The gas station owners know that just asking people to refrain from topping off because it might hurt the station equipment isn't going to be an appeal that will get any traction. So instead they invented this bogyman that if you top off your going to damage your car, so don't do it, to appeal to people's self-interest.
Quite obviously, splashback causes a spill, and the pollution from the gas evaporating from the spill is what matters, that and any pollution that might be caused by a gas station evap recovery system that had been damaged by sucking liquid gas - from splashback.
Ted
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wrote: | | > I can and do fill my Safari van by draping the hose over the top of the | > van at the local Sams store. The same for my Toyota Tacoma. They only | > allow one way traffic through the pumps to avoid head bumping and fist | > fights ;-} Thanks to people such as you I hardly ever have to wait for a | > free pump. | | You know pulling the hose out across the vehicle is dangerous and | prohibited by law, right? |
Not where I live it isn't. Given enough time it probaly will be though.
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Anyolmouse wrote:

Why do you say that? Is there anything dangerous or harmful to the environment about bring the hose over the vehicle? What about a motorcycle? You can't fill one without bring the hose over the vehicle.
Jeff
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wrote: | > | | > | > I can and do fill my Safari van by draping the hose over the top of | > the | > | > van at the local Sams store. The same for my Toyota Tacoma. They | > only | > | > allow one way traffic through the pumps to avoid head bumping and | > fist | > | > fights ;-} Thanks to people such as you I hardly ever have to wait | > for a | > | > free pump. | > | | > | You know pulling the hose out across the vehicle is dangerous and | > | prohibited by law, right? | > | | > | > Not where I live it isn't. Given enough time it probaly will be though. | | Why do you say that? Is there anything dangerous or harmful to the | environment about bring the hose over the vehicle? What about a | motorcycle? You can't fill one without bring the hose over the vehicle. | | Jeff
Who are you responding to Jeff? It appears you meant to respond to somebody else in the thread but it was posted under my last comment about it not being illegal to drape the hose over your vehicle here in Texas.
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Anyolmouse wrote:

You.
yeah, but say it probably will be.
You made a comment, and I asked why say that as well as some specific questions about your comment.
Jeff
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There's nothing wrong with bringing the hose to the vehicle, but wrapping it across is. Just asking for a spill or the emergency disconnect to split.
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Paul Johnson wrote:

There are no emergency disconnect on any of the hoses I have seen in California, the Midwest or the East Coast. Making an emergency disconnect that can come apart easily is more stupid than your comments is this thread.
I don't see how this is asking for a spill if the hose is long enough.
Jeff
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Sure there is. It's required by OSHA on all gas pumps nationwide, and I've yet to see one that's missing it unless someone's driven off with the hose.
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wrote:

of
though.
You are an idiot. All gas pump spouts have emergency disconnects. What the disconnect is, specifically, is an extremely thin connector joint between the hose and the handle, that is designed to fracture if some moron drives off with the spout still sitting in the gas tank fill hole in their car. This prevents a lot more expensive damage from occurring to the gas pump or hose or spout. Just because the disconnect isn't painted bright orange and playing a tune when you pull the handle out of the pump doesen't mean it's not there.
Ted
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On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 13:28:22 -0800 (PST), Paul Johnson

I'm going to call Bullshit on these alleged "laws", too. One Way traffic enforced by law on private property? Where you can or can't put the hose? Cites, please.
Most relevant state laws and codes are on the net somewhere, and easily quoted, I know California's are - http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/vc.htm http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html http://www.calregs.com /
The One Way traffic one, I can see the property owner (gas station) "Enforcing" their own rules by refusing you service, especially if you jumped the line to come in the back way, but they can't give you a traffic ticket.

The drive-off Break-away Fitting that is incorporated in the hose swivel requires quite a bit of force to pop open if it's in good condition. It isn't going to open just from being draped across the back of a car by hand - you'd have to be deliberately trying to pop it open, pulling hard and fast with both hands at the limit of the hose retractor rope.
But there are a few stations who have turned the break-away into a new profit center - "I'm sorry Ma'am, but I have to charge you $250 for popping the break-away. Now we have to call an equipment serviceman out and have him replace the hose and nozzle..." And if the victim doesn't pay, the station can call the cops.
After the victim leaves with their wallet lightened, the owner checks the seals for damage, they're fine. Put a bit of oil on the mating surfaces, two big pairs of pliers and pop it back together, and a 25-cent shear pin out of the box of 100 in the back room. Done.
--<< Bruce >>--
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On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 17:43:06 -0800, Bruce L. Bergman

The only place I've ever seen a "one way" sign is at one of these:
http://www.bjs.com/inclub/gas_propane/index.shtml
The worst they can do is revoke your club membership. And they have signs up that say they have "extra long hoses to reach both sides of your vehicle."
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Bruce L. Bergman wrote:

In Virginia, service stations will not refuse service to someone because they live in fear of getting slapped with a discrimination lawsuit unless the person refused service happens to be white. They will flat out tell you that if, say, you ask them to refuse service to customers who pull in and leave their car stereos blasting the whole neighborhood. And local law enforcement will concur and say that, because the way the laws are written in VA, they disuade station owners from refusing service for that very reason - that the station owner will in fact run a great risk of getting sued on discrimination charges. Personally - I think thy're both FOS - just avoiding conflict to make their days go smoother. But it is a shame that our legal system has allowed this oppression to prevail in the name of "equality".
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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A few years ago I was in NJ and asked an attendant why they had that law. He said its a union thing

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yup it is a union thing. the gas pumpers union is all powerfull, and will never let the law be changed.
just last week, they signed a new contract, and they now are being paid over $7/hr!!!
as a matter of fact, when i retire from my present job, i am going to join the gas pumpers union. by then, they should be making at least $9/hr, so i will only be taking a $14/hr pay cut.

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While it may have started as some misguided social labor management attempt, employ the otherwise unemployable, it remains in place now because all the lazy voters who don't want to vote to pump their own gas...

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it has always been that way. and now, with the influx of all the new york city slickers who don't dare get their hands dirty by pumping their own gas, it is guaranteed to stay that way.

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Tom wrote:

Gee, I have never noticed an influx of NYC people in New Jersey gas stations who cross a bridge or tunnel at $4 a pop (with EZ Pass discount, soon to be $6, and $8 without the discount). Of course, they often gas up before returning to the city if they are in NJ (there are not that man gas stations in NYC because of the high cost of land and doing business in the city) because of the higher prices of gas in NYC.
I do wish you would get your act in order and learn not to top post, but rather in-line post, which makes it easier to follow the thread.
JEff

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