Here's Ford/Volvo Lying About AWD

Look at the xc70's poor performance. This haldex system is in the ford 500 and freestyle. This is why Ford is in trouble.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyLgYskj-oc

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Whatever, do you see the rear wheels on the volvo spinning? Then I'd say it was an even test, but fwd vs. awd is no contest.
There you go, top-posted it too.
On Jan 29, 7:44 pm, snipped-for-privacy@backpacker.com wrote:

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I wish I could understand the guy talking. As far as I know Ford doesn't claim the AWD setup on the Freestyle is for heavy duty off road use.The Subaru has a better off road AWD system, but I wonder what would happen if you installed different tires on the Volvo. My Mother has an AWD Freestyle and if drives really well. We never use if for off road driving more strenuous that driving down a muddy 1/4 mile long lane, but it handles that really well. The tires are not particularly aggressive. They are more suited to highway driving than limited traction situations. I am not sure if the traction control system would help the off road situation.
The description of the Freestyle system in the Ford Service Manual implies that in low traction situations, the front to rear power split would be locked at 50/50 and transmit power to the rear wheels even if the front wheels were spinning. The Volvo in the movie clip did not seem to work like this. Are you sure the systems are the same?
I also wonder why the driver seemed to poke up the hill so slowly. I bet I could drive my Son's 2WD Mustang up that little hill with a more aggressive driving technique. So I am not sure exactly what they were trying to prove (again I wish I could understand what the guy was saying). I know I could have climbed the hill with a 2WD Ranger (with decent AT Tires).
Ed
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Generally AWD on demand system are intended for use on road. Off road use vehicles are generally, manually or electrically selectable, 4WD, dual rage, systems. Try that test with a 4WD F150 crewcab LOL
mike

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I dont like that video for two reasons.
1. It wasnt done in English so you have no idea what they are saying..
2. Those tires, and those vehicles are NOT designed for off road use. The AWD is designed for highway use, and the Volvo uses a viscus clutch in the transfer case to supply power to the rear wheels. How do we know that it wasnt malfunctioning, or disengaged?
Ford Tech

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I never saw the rear wheels show any indication that they were getting power. Perhaps it was a comparison of a FWD vehicle to an AWD vehicle.
wrote:

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No XC70 is AWD. Check out http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/volvo.html

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If that description is accurate, then the Volvo system and the Freestyle system are not the same. The system in the Freestyle includes an electro-magnetic clutch along with hydraulics that can lock the driveshaft if excessive slip is detected. At least from the description it is like the A4WD System used in the Expeditions and Explorers, the primary difference being that for the Freestyle the front wheels are primary (always direct connected), and the rear wheels are secondary (connected via the electro-magnetic clutch), while in the Expedition and Explorer, the rear wheels are primary and the front wheels are secondary.
Ed
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why is it that no matter what the subject, there will always be some ford bashing troll that will post some kind of bullscrap like this to try to tick others off???
I mean really. are there that many people in the world that have absolutely nothing better to do ???

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True. I don't understand why he doesn't just buy the Subaru if he wants to hill climb.
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I have a subaru and it is far more capable than that video. People wonder why Ford is going down. One reason is lying about products and selling crap. No one can doubt the capability and durability of Subaru AWD as it has been proven for years.

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opinions are like rectal orifices. everyone has at least one.
you think fords are crap. fine. we really don't care though, and will still buy, drive, and restore old fords.
and as far as the bs about ford going down? I will believe it when they shutter the doors. a company that holds the market share in truck sales is definitely not doing as bad as all the naysayers says it is.

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Exactly how is Ford lying? The vehicle definitely has all wheel drive. Maybe it is not as good as the Subaru system, but why does that make it a lie? And frankly, I'd still like to know what the guy was saying. I don't understand why they were poking up the hill so slowly? I believe if they had been more aggressive that the Volvo's passive AWD would have kicked in. I am confident I could climb that hill with a 2WD vehicle with a little aggressive driving. At any rate the Ford AWD system is an active system. The Volvo in the movie was using a passive system. Here is Ford's description of the Freestyle's AWD:
"The all wheel drive (AWD) system is driven by the engine through the transaxle to the power transfer unit (PTU). The PTU transfers engine power from the transaxle through the driveshaft to the active on-demand coupling (viscous clutch-type unit). The differential electronic module (DEM) on the active on-demand coupling regulates how much torque is applied to the rear axle and halfshafts. The DEM monitors front wheel speed versus rear wheel speed to determine how much torque (up to 1,000 Nm at the coupler) to apply to the rear wheels. The DEM uses oil pressure via an oil pump and solenoid valve to regulate torque through the active on-demand coupling. The constantly activated, automatic AWD system has no external controls. ....
"Torque from the engine goes through the transaxle to the power transfer unit (PTU). Torque is transferred from the driveshaft to the rear axle, which drives the rear halfshafts. The vehicle is equipped with an intelligent all wheel drive (AWD) system that is always active and requires no driver input. The AWD system combines transparent all-surface operation, and is capable of handling all road conditions, including street and highway driving as well as winter driving. The AWD system continuously monitors vehicle conditions and automatically adjusts the torque distribution between the front and rear wheels. During normal operation, most of the torque is sent to the front wheels. If wheel slip between the front and rear wheels is detected, or if the vehicle is under heavy acceleration (HIGH THROTTLE position), the AWD system increases torque to the rear wheels to prevent or control wheel slip. ....
"Differential Electronic Module (DEM) and Active On-Demand Coupling
"The main role of active on-demand coupling and the differential electronic module (DEM) is to regulate the all wheel drive (AWD) function by distributing torque between the front and rear axles. The system consists of a coupling that combines mechanical, hydraulic and electronic sections. The coupling unit is attached to the rear axle, between the differential gear and the driveshaft. The mechanical and hydraulic sections are driven by the driveshaft. Active on-demand coupling (AOC) has the following characteristics: - Permanent AWD with electronic control of torque transfer front to rear - Similar to four wheel drive (4WD) operation - No driveline wind-up during slow speed maneuvers or parking
"The system is not sensitive to size differences between the 4 road tires (when driving with a spare wheel, for example). The system is not sensitive to being towed with one axle raised."
After reading a more detailed description of the Haldex system, the Freestyle's system does sound as if it is related, but it is not the same as the passive Volvo system in the vehicle in the little movie. Here is an explanation of the difference::
"The new electronically controlled all-wheel-drive system [from the S60 AWD] differs from the passive system in the current Cross Country in that instead of using a viscous coupling to engage drive to the rear wheels, a computer-controlled multi-plate clutch handles that task. Connected to the car's Multiplex wiring system, the electronically engaged rear axle works in tandem with the engine- and brake-control modules. The speed of the vehicle is taken into account so that rear-wheel drive doesn't intrude when it's not really needed, such as during parking maneuvers...."
So here what I think -
1) The Volvo in the little movie was using the old passive system. That system depends on heat generated in the coupling to engage the rear wheels. The people making the movie deliberately poked along with the Volvo in order to keep the viscous coupling from heating up and therefore it did not engage the rear wheel drive. This may have been sneaky/deliberate attempt to make the Volvo look bad. I don't why they would do this. Maybe they sell Subarus. If the Volvo had been aggressively driven, I suspect the rear wheel drive would have kicked in.
2) Ford or Volvo did not lie about anything. If there was any "lying" I'd tend to suspect the guy making the little movie. It seems he deliberately operated the Volvo in a silly way in order to make it look bad.
3) The AWD Freestyle does not use the passive type system. It has the active type system, so the little movie is completely unrelated to an AWD Freestyle.
4) The guy that started this tread need to check facts before calling people or companies liars.
Ed
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Wanna bet it a Japanese buyer trying to convince himself he didn't get screwed? ;)
mike

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As a swede (therfore being able to understad what is said in the movie) I can confirm that the Volvo in the clip is a V70XC, meaning it is 2002 or earlier and has the old viscous (passive) coupling. Don't confuse this with the Haldex system used from 2003 (the car was at the same time renamed to XC70) - the two are like night and day. The Haldex is used both in Volvo and Ford Freestyle. For more technical info see the Haldex website: www.haldex-traction.com
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There is a long discussion of this movie at http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/06/13/video-volvo-vs-subaru-awd/ . Pretty far down one guy tells us some actual facts. The net is, as I thought, the Vovlvo in the movie is the older model with the passive AWD system, not the current model with the electronically controlled AWD system (the one similar to the Freestyle's system). The following comments are from the referenced page:
"This test is for a 2002 V70 XC with a viscous coupler - pre-Haldex (in 2003 the V70 XC changed to the XC70 and changed to the Haldex system). Haldex AWD is also used on some Audi's and Volkswagen's, not to mention the Bugatti Veyron. It can proportion up to 100% torque to either front or rear based on need and it works incredily well. Regardless, the viscous coupler should have transferred enough power to the rear wheels to make at least one of them spin. Even though this is an old video with out-dated models, something still is not functioning properly with that Volvo."
In my opinion, the guy running the test deliberate drove slowly so that the viscous coupling would not engage. This old system required slippage in the coupling to generate heat that leads to the engagement of the coupling.
Ed
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