JD Powers Survey

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Lexus keeps J.D. Power dependability crown Porsche, Hyundai improve By Gail Kachadourian Automotive News / June 29, 2005
Nameplate Ranking
Problems per 100 Vehicles
Lexus139 Porsche149 Lincoln151 Buick163 Cadillac175 Infiniti178 Toyota194 Mercury195 Honda201 Acura203 BMW225 Ford231 Chevrolet232 Chrysler235 Industry Average237 Saturn240 Oldsmobile242 GMC245 Pontiac245 Mazda252 Hyundai260 Subaru260 Volvo266 Jaguar268 Dodge273 Nissan275 Mitsubishi278 Mercedes-Benz283 Saab286 Jeep289 Suzuki292 Audi312 Daewoo318 Isuzu331 Volkswagen335 MINI383 Land Rover395 Kia397
For the 11th straight year, Lexus is tops in long-term quality in J.D. Power and Associates' Vehicle Dependability Study.
According to the 2005 study, owners of 2002-model Lexus vehicles reported 139 problems per 100 vehicles. Power released the study on Wednesday.
Lexus showed a 14 percent improvement in dependability over 2004, Power said. Lexus vehicles ranked first in three of the 19 car and truck segments included in the study.
The Lexus LS 430 had 90 problems per 100 vehicles. It is the first model in the history of the 16-year-old study to have fewer than one problem per vehicle.
Porsche showed a dramatic increase in this year's study. It finished second in dependability, up from tenth last year. Porsche had 149 problems per 100 vehicles, a 38 percent year-over-year improvement.
"It's the largest percentage improvement in the industry," said Neal Oddes, Power's director of product research.
"Porsche didn't change much of their lineup" from the 2001 to 2002 model year, Oddes said. "They just improved on what they had."
Hyundai had the largest year-over-year reduction in the number of problems reported by owners. The brand had 260 problems per 100 vehicles, a reduction of 115 problems from last year's study. But Hyundai still finished below the industry average of 237 problems per 100 vehicles.
Chevrolet placed first in four model segments, more than any other brand. The study ranked Chevrolet's Prizm and Malibu cars and S-10 and Silverado HD pickups most dependable in their segments.
Among other General Motors vehicles, the Buick Century and LeSabre sedans, GMC Yukon and Yukon XL and Cadillac Escalade EXT SUVs finished on top of their model segments.
"This is the first time, when you look at GM, they've won this many segment awards," Oddes says.
Ford Motor Co. vehicles finished first in five segments. Toyota had four segment leaders.
Oddes noted that the Escalade EXT and the redesigned Ford Thunderbird, another segment winner, debuted in the 2002 model year. A first-year vehicle finishing first in dependability "is very rare at best," he says.
Overall, the Power study says, long-term vehicle quality increased 12 percent from 2004 to 2005. Audi and Saab were the only brands that did not show year-over-year improvements.
Audi had 312 problems per 100 vehicles in this year's study, a 6 percent increase from 2004. Saab had 286 problems per 100 vehicles, an 8 percent increase. Oddes called these annual changes in dependability "minor declines."
Kia, which had 397 problems per 100 vehicles, finished last in the 2005 study. Land Rover, last year's lowest performer, was second to last this year, with 395 problems.
The Power study is based on responses from 50,635 original owners of 2002 model vehicles. A vehicle warranty typically is reaching its end after three years, Power said.
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The just goes to show how closely cars are rated today for build quality by their owners. The best has a rate 1.39 defects per car and the worst 3.97 and the average of only 2.37. If one subscribes to J D Powers service they would see the failures are mostly minor in nature, such as squeaks and rattles
Looks much different when presented as a list than if shown, as it should be, as a percentage of failures. The best as just over 98% trouble free, the average just under 98% trouble free, and the worst as just under 97% trouble free. That is what we see in our business, as well.
All manufactures are building good vehicles today that will easily run to 200K, trouble free, if given the proper preventive maintenance. The only real difference among them is style and price. Your chance of getting a good one are basically 8 out of 9. The change of getting one not up to snuff is minor 1% to 2% since they all have a failure rate of at least 1%, that is why they all offer a warranty.
Why some will spend 20% or 30% more to buy a comparable vehicle, of a certain brand over another, just in the hope that the ONE they get is not one of the 1% to 2%, always seemed like extremely poor gambling odds to me ;)
"C. E. White" wrote:

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The worst have 3 times the number of problems as the best. That might make a difference to somebody.
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----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: rec.autos.misc,alt.autos.ford,alt.autos.toyota Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 9:54 PM Subject: Re: JD Powers Survey

Stating the differences that way is misleading. Suppose the best vehicles had no problems and the worst average 1 problem. Using your logic, the worst vehicle was infinitely worse than the best vehicle.......
If the worst manufacturer had 30 problems per vehicle and the best 10, that might be significant. But the worst manufacturer (Kia) only averaged 4 problems per vehicle, whicle the best (Lexus) averaged a little over 1 problem per vehicle. How many people buying a Kia would have paid an extra $10,000 or more to buy a Lexus so they could avoid 3 problems (partiucularly since most are probably minor)?
Ed
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If I could get a Lexus for $10k more than a Kia I certainly would.
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If the number of problems a vehicle has or its reliability was the sole reason to purchase one vehicle or brand over another, then your point is valid because as Mike Hunt and Ed point out, the differences are fairly minor.
IMO, most people consider several factors when choosing a vehicle, among them past experience, quality, reliability, style, ride and cabin comfort, quietness, performance, fuel economy, utility, prestige, available equipment, warranty, dealer service, country of origin, price, operating costs, resale value, safety, even color.
Under the category "quality," there are other factors besides reliability and defects. Fit and finish - the feel, comfort, alignment, and appearance of the interior and body; engine and transmission smoothness; wind, road and engine noise; ergonomics.
If reliability or problems per vehicle were the only purchase criteria, everyone would be buying the cheapest car available and everyone else would be out of business.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply
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But there are other issues. For example, a friend just bought a 2005 Corvette. He drove me to a business meeting a few miles away. I own a 4runner. When he started the vette, it ran rough, and it took 10 minutes for the car's AC to cool it down. In my 4runner, the engine runs so that I don't even feel it on, and the AC cools it down in a matter of 2 minutes. So there are still design issues that are still huge. I am thinking about buying the Dodge Charger - and then souping it up. I really hope quality is getting that good... we will see..
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If you want a souped up Charger, wait a while. A bigger V8 is on its way.

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Apparently you did not read that survey. It was of the experiences of owner on THREE YEAR OLD vehicles. J D Powers does another survey of new vehicles of owners perceptions of their vehicle after 90 day. NOBODY ever said all manufactures make a perfect one every time. On average EVERY manufacture makes at least 1% up to 2% that are defective, that is why they all have a warranty. The fact is you are far more likely to a get one of 98% that are good from ANY manufacture than you are of getting one of the 2% that prove to be problematic from ANY manufacture. Since that is a given why not chose the one that best suits your particular needs and budget rather then betting 20% to 30% more in the hope you will not get one of the bad ones? That survey concluded that GM Ford and Toyota has the best vehicles in the survey, but only because it was not listed as percentages.
mike hunt
Art wrote:

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You responded to the wrong post in the thread but in any case, any survey that says GM and Ford are near the top in 3 year reliability is screwed up.

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Ya right all owners lie, except the owners of the brand you like, Get real LOL
mike hunt
Art wrote:

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So when did you last own a GM or Ford product? For many years I wouldn't touch a Toyota product becasue of a horrible personal experince and equally poor experiences of people close to me. I have owned vehciels from most major manufacturers (GM, Ford, Nissan, Toyota, Chrysler, VW). Currently, I am most comfortable with Ford products. Not every Ford I have owned has been perfect, but 100% of the Toyota I owned reeked. Still, I am looking for a new farm truck (and have been for almost a year) and of the possible candidates, Toyota seema to have the best candidates from a size / function standpoint. Unfortunately I just can't seem to convince myself I should pay more for a Tundra than for an F250, just becasue I think the F250 is too big. Therefore I am still driving my 13 year old F150. BTW, I have not spent enough on repairs to the F150 in the last 13 years to make 2 months worth of payments on a new Tundra. However, it is inevitable that something will eventually kill the F150 (most likely a teenage son) and I really dislike the current F150s and the current Rangers are just too small.
My Mother and Father have owned nothing but Fords for the last 48 years. In that time, I only remember one car that had any significant problems, and they were mostly the result of poor dealer service. They currently own three Ford products - 1999 Ranger, 2000 Grand Marquis, 2005 Freestyle. The only repair for any of these, was a new IAC for the Grand Marquis and an IAC for the Ranger. So, I guess on a three year dependability stdy, their average number of problems was <1. So, I don't have any problems believing the JD Power results, as least as they pertain to Ford products.
Ed
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Well I had 2 91 Taurus's which were fix or repair daily vehicles. That is a long time ago. But my father has a 2004 Saturn and it is very low in quality. Shockingly bad I would say. A friend was just telling me about his disasterous late model Malibu.

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In that survey GM and Ford had the number one vehicle, in the opinion of their owners, in more classes than did Toyota. ;)
mike hunt
Ed White wrote:

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2 words that will explain it: Low expectations.

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Actually GM was rated better than all other manufactures, of THREE year old vehicles. Those are NOT the vehicle GM sells today. One must make their judgment between the vehicles available today not three or ten years ago. The newer vehicle are even BETTER than just three years ago.
mike hunt
"Dan J.S." wrote:

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Tell my buddy who had no end to problems with a late model Malibu. He was diehard GM even after owning a Vega. But no more GM for him.

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I had several Honda, one was a turkey from day one. Should I assume that Honda therefore all turned to $#IT Get real LOL
mike hunt
Art wrote:

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Except every GM vehicle he owned was crap. He just didn't give up on the until the Malibu. His sister owned that 2 seater plastic space frame car they made a decade or so ago. I forget what it was called. I remember asking him how she liked it. He said it was a good car.... except for the engine fire. LOL. He was still buying GM after that.

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Ya right. Do you expect anyone to believe he got one of the 2% rather than the 98% every time. Get real
mike hunt
Art wrote:

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