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- C. E. White
June 29, 2005, 1:22 pm
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Lexus keeps J.D. Power dependability crown
Porsche, Hyundai improve
By Gail Kachadourian
Automotive News / June 29, 2005
Nameplate Ranking
Problems per 100 Vehicles
Lexus139
Porsche149
Lincoln151
Buick163
Cadillac175
Infiniti178
Toyota194
Mercury195
Honda201
Acura203
BMW225
Ford231
Chevrolet232
Chrysler235
Industry Average237
Saturn240
Oldsmobile242
GMC245
Pontiac245
Mazda252
Hyundai260
Subaru260
Volvo266
Jaguar268
Dodge273
Nissan275
Mitsubishi278
Mercedes-Benz283
Saab286
Jeep289
Suzuki292
Audi312
Daewoo318
Isuzu331
Volkswagen335
MINI383
Land Rover395
Kia397
For the 11th straight year, Lexus is tops in long-term quality in J.D. Power
and Associates' Vehicle Dependability Study.
According to the 2005 study, owners of 2002-model Lexus vehicles reported
139 problems per 100 vehicles. Power released the study on Wednesday.
Lexus showed a 14 percent improvement in dependability over 2004, Power
said. Lexus vehicles ranked first in three of the 19 car and truck segments
included in the study.
The Lexus LS 430 had 90 problems per 100 vehicles. It is the first model in
the history of the 16-year-old study to have fewer than one problem per
vehicle.
Porsche showed a dramatic increase in this year's study. It finished second
in dependability, up from tenth last year. Porsche had 149 problems per 100
vehicles, a 38 percent year-over-year improvement.
"It's the largest percentage improvement in the industry," said Neal Oddes,
Power's director of product research.
"Porsche didn't change much of their lineup" from the 2001 to 2002 model
year, Oddes said. "They just improved on what they had."
Hyundai had the largest year-over-year reduction in the number of problems
reported by owners. The brand had 260 problems per 100 vehicles, a reduction
of 115 problems from last year's study. But Hyundai still finished below the
industry average of 237 problems per 100 vehicles.
Chevrolet placed first in four model segments, more than any other brand.
The study ranked Chevrolet's Prizm and Malibu cars and S-10 and Silverado HD
pickups most dependable in their segments.
Among other General Motors vehicles, the Buick Century and LeSabre sedans,
GMC Yukon and Yukon XL and Cadillac Escalade EXT SUVs finished on top of
their model segments.
"This is the first time, when you look at GM, they've won this many segment
awards," Oddes says.
Ford Motor Co. vehicles finished first in five segments. Toyota had four
segment leaders.
Oddes noted that the Escalade EXT and the redesigned Ford Thunderbird,
another segment winner, debuted in the 2002 model year. A first-year vehicle
finishing first in dependability "is very rare at best," he says.
Overall, the Power study says, long-term vehicle quality increased 12
percent from 2004 to 2005. Audi and Saab were the only brands that did not
show year-over-year improvements.
Audi had 312 problems per 100 vehicles in this year's study, a 6 percent
increase from 2004. Saab had 286 problems per 100 vehicles, an 8 percent
increase. Oddes called these annual changes in dependability "minor
declines."
Kia, which had 397 problems per 100 vehicles, finished last in the 2005
study. Land Rover, last year's lowest performer, was second to last this
year, with 395 problems.
The Power study is based on responses from 50,635 original owners of 2002
model vehicles. A vehicle warranty typically is reaching its end after three
years, Power said.
Re: JD Powers Survey
The just goes to show how closely cars are rated today for build
quality by their owners. The best has a rate 1.39 defects per
car and the worst 3.97 and the average of only 2.37. If one
subscribes to J D Powers service they would see the failures are
mostly minor in nature, such as squeaks and rattles
Looks much different when presented as a list than if shown, as
it should be, as a percentage of failures. The best as just over
98% trouble free, the average just under 98% trouble free, and
the worst as just under 97% trouble free. That is what we see
in our business, as well.
All manufactures are building good vehicles today that will
easily run to 200K, trouble free, if given the proper preventive
maintenance. The only real difference among them is style and
price. Your chance of getting a good one are basically 8 out of
9. The change of getting one not up to snuff is minor 1% to 2%
since they all have a failure rate of at least 1%, that is why
they all offer a warranty.
Why some will spend 20% or 30% more to buy a comparable vehicle,
of a certain brand over another, just in the hope that the ONE
they get is not one of the 1% to 2%, always seemed like extremely
poor gambling odds to me ;)
"C. E. White" wrote:
Re: JD Powers Survey
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: rec.autos.misc,alt.autos.ford,alt.autos.toyota
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: JD Powers Survey
Stating the differences that way is misleading. Suppose the best vehicles
had no problems and the worst average 1 problem. Using your logic, the worst
vehicle was infinitely worse than the best vehicle.......
If the worst manufacturer had 30 problems per vehicle and the best 10, that
might be significant. But the worst manufacturer (Kia) only averaged 4
problems per vehicle, whicle the best (Lexus) averaged a little over 1
problem per vehicle. How many people buying a Kia would have paid an extra
$10,000 or more to buy a Lexus so they could avoid 3 problems (partiucularly
since most are probably minor)?
Ed
Re: JD Powers Survey
If the number of problems a vehicle has or its reliability was the sole
reason to purchase one vehicle or brand over another, then your point is
valid because as Mike Hunt and Ed point out, the differences are fairly
minor.
IMO, most people consider several factors when choosing a vehicle, among
them past experience, quality, reliability, style, ride and cabin comfort,
quietness, performance, fuel economy, utility, prestige, available
equipment, warranty, dealer service, country of origin, price, operating
costs, resale value, safety, even color.
Under the category "quality," there are other factors besides reliability
and defects. Fit and finish - the feel, comfort, alignment, and appearance
of the interior and body; engine and transmission smoothness; wind, road and
engine noise; ergonomics.
If reliability or problems per vehicle were the only purchase criteria,
everyone would be buying the cheapest car available and everyone else would
be out of business.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply
Re: JD Powers Survey
But there are other issues. For example, a friend just bought a 2005
Corvette. He drove me to a business meeting a few miles away. I own a
4runner. When he started the vette, it ran rough, and it took 10 minutes for
the car's AC to cool it down. In my 4runner, the engine runs so that I don't
even feel it on, and the AC cools it down in a matter of 2 minutes. So there
are still design issues that are still huge. I am thinking about buying the
Dodge Charger - and then souping it up. I really hope quality is getting
that good... we will see..
Re: JD Powers Survey
Apparently you did not read that survey. It was of the
experiences of owner on THREE YEAR OLD vehicles. J D Powers does
another survey of new vehicles of owners perceptions of their
vehicle after 90 day. NOBODY ever said all manufactures make a
perfect one every time. On average EVERY manufacture makes at
least 1% up to 2% that are defective, that is why they all have a
warranty. The fact is you are far more likely to a get one of
98% that are good from ANY manufacture than you are of getting
one of the 2% that prove to be problematic from ANY manufacture.
Since that is a given why not chose the one that best suits your
particular needs and budget rather then betting 20% to 30% more
in the hope you will not get one of the bad ones? That survey
concluded that GM Ford and Toyota has the best vehicles in the
survey, but only because it was not listed as percentages.
mike hunt
Art wrote:
Re: JD Powers Survey
So when did you last own a GM or Ford product? For many years I
wouldn't touch a Toyota product becasue of a horrible personal
experince and equally poor experiences of people close to me. I have
owned vehciels from most major manufacturers (GM, Ford, Nissan, Toyota,
Chrysler, VW). Currently, I am most comfortable with Ford products. Not
every Ford I have owned has been perfect, but 100% of the Toyota I
owned reeked. Still, I am looking for a new farm truck (and have been
for almost a year) and of the possible candidates, Toyota seema to have
the best candidates from a size / function standpoint. Unfortunately I
just can't seem to convince myself I should pay more for a Tundra than
for an F250, just becasue I think the F250 is too big. Therefore I am
still driving my 13 year old F150. BTW, I have not spent enough on
repairs to the F150 in the last 13 years to make 2 months worth of
payments on a new Tundra. However, it is inevitable that something will
eventually kill the F150 (most likely a teenage son) and I really
dislike the current F150s and the current Rangers are just too small.
My Mother and Father have owned nothing but Fords for the last 48
years. In that time, I only remember one car that had any significant
problems, and they were mostly the result of poor dealer service. They
currently own three Ford products - 1999 Ranger, 2000 Grand Marquis,
2005 Freestyle. The only repair for any of these, was a new IAC for the
Grand Marquis and an IAC for the Ranger. So, I guess on a three year
dependability stdy, their average number of problems was <1. So, I
don't have any problems believing the JD Power results, as least as
they pertain to Ford products.
Ed
Re: JD Powers Survey
Actually GM was rated better than all other manufactures, of
THREE year old vehicles. Those are NOT the vehicle GM sells
today. One must make their judgment between the vehicles
available today not three or ten years ago. The newer vehicle
are even BETTER than just three years ago.
mike hunt
"Dan J.S." wrote:
Re: JD Powers Survey
Except every GM vehicle he owned was crap. He just didn't give up on the
until the Malibu. His sister owned that 2 seater plastic space frame car
they made a decade or so ago. I forget what it was called. I remember
asking him how she liked it. He said it was a good car.... except for the
engine fire. LOL. He was still buying GM after that.
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