JD Powers Survey

In that survey GM and Ford had the number one vehicle, in the opinion of their owners, in more classes than did Toyota. ;)

mike hunt

Ed White wrote:

Mike

There are reasons why GM keeps losing money. It starts with quality. Yes, they are getting better, but markets are best at throwing away bad apples. GM is practically giving away their cars just to keep the inventory moving. This is not a good sign.

Dan

GMs problem is primarily a PR problem and the survey backs that up. What they were doing ten to five years ago is hurting them today. They need only convince todays buyers, of what we in the industry already know, that the vehicle they and Ford are building TODAY are among the finest available on the market TODAY. Many are the best in class, like the mid size Buick, Cadillac full size sedan, the small chevy truck and GM and Ford large trucks and the Ford mid size van for example. GMs and Fords vehicles are much less expensive to drive home as well. By getting more of them on the road, that fact will become apparent.

New vehicle buyers in the US replace their vehicle with another new vehicle in three to four years. The majority of those that roam the NG are USED vehicle buyer, not NEW vehicle buyer, their opinion of the used vehicle they bought does not mean a hill of beans to todays new vehicle buyers, in any event.

mike hunt

"Dan J.S." wrote:

Pontiac Fiero, plastic crap.

What are you basing this information on? I thought about this quite a while, and I know of nobody in the past 15 years that has gotten rid of a new vehicle within the time frame you described. Nearly every one of my freinds and close family have bought new cars at least once in the last 15 years, and I remember nobody getting rid of theirs that shortle after buying it. The only one that comes close is my Bro-in-Law, who's company gets him a new ride every other year.

This sounds like information put out by dealers to make people feel they have to go trade their vehicle in on a new one every couple of years.

Yeah, building the Lumina, a vehicle that ran like new until 150k+ miles, in 1994, is hurting them today.... Not the Malibu, which honestly has some of the crappiest brakes I've ever seen, amongst a host of other problems. GM is making some very poor choices, there is no reason the Malibu should have drum brakes on the rear in this day-and-age, the body roll on that vehicle is terrible, and the 170 HP rating is a either a joke or the drivetrain is so inefficent it absorbs 80% of it.

I was a die-hard GM guy, until I bought a 2002 Malibu, and relized how many small, annoying problems there are with it. This wasn't a lemon, it just wasn't the car one would expect for $22,000.

What you are saying, is to NOT look at GM or any manufacturer's track record when buying an new vehicle. OK then, what ARE we supposed to go by? Advertisements? Opinions of people that bought their vehicle last week? Salesmen? Some reliability study done only on 2 or 3 year old vehicles? Be real.

Where did you get this information from? Have any supporting documents?

Where did you get this information from? Have any supporting documents?

Says who? I doubt that you speak for all new vehicle buyers.

I guess then you need to do some research. The average new vehicle buyer in the US replaces their vehicle with another new vehicle every three to four years. The average used car in the buyer in the US does so in two to three years. Over the past ten years an average of 16.5 million new vehicles are sold in the US every year. An average of only nine million are taken off the road every year. Personally, I run two cars and buy a new vehicle every year, and pass on to a family member, or sell off the one that is two years old. ;)

mike hunt

GTD wrote:

GM sells over six million vehicles a year, surly you don't believe one can judge all GM products today by the one or two your friends owned fifteen year ago.

Perhaps you fiend should try buying a new vehicle for a change. After all did it ever occur to you that when you buy anything used you are buying something the original owner no longer wanted for some reason? ;)

mike hunt

GTD wrote:

ping 204.186.170.224 PING 204.186.170.224 (204.186.170.224) from 192.168.1.100 : 56(84) bytes of data.

64 bytes from 204.186.170.224: icmp_seq=1 ttl=117 time=249 ms 64 bytes from 204.186.170.224: icmp_seq=2 ttl=117 time=235 ms 64 bytes from 204.186.170.224: icmp_seq=3 ttl=117 time=310 ms 64 bytes from 204.186.170.224: icmp_seq=4 ttl=117 time=423 ms 64 bytes from 204.186.170.224: icmp_seq=5 ttl=117 time=1065 ms

--- 204.186.170.224 ping statistics ---

6 packets transmitted, 5 received, 16% loss, time 5013ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 235.345/457.040/1065.519/311.384 ms, pipe 2

snipped-for-privacy@ptdprolog.net wrote:

Pontiac Fiero

2 words that will explain it: Low expectations.

Mike,

When you try to open the hood on my father's 2004 Saturn, the handle feels like it is ready to break off. The rear seats are incredibly low and uncomfortable. The handling is incredibly bad. It is a 6 but drives like a

4 until you fill it with gas. It uses gas like a big 6. The rear window switches look like the front door lock switches. Overall a piece of crap.

Thanks..... a great car..... except for the engine fire. And that is a quote.

Like I said, do you have any supporting documentation? I've looked and have found none.

You got all that from " Pontiac Fiero, plastic crap."?

Anyways, you are trying to win this argument by insult, you are wrong, and it is not working. Off the top of my head, I know of at least 30 vehicles bought new by friends and family.

BTW, I have, the last 3 vehicles. My current one, less than a month old, Is a Crown VicLX Sport, loaded and PAID FOR!

That is the only way to go, why pay interest.

mike hunt

-+

GTD wrote:

YOU want ME to do YOUR homework? Ask your mom, perhaps she will do it for you...

mike hunt

GTD wrote:

As I stated, I have found no information supporting what you claim. You are expecting me to prove a negative, which is impossible. What do you want me to do, list all the websites that do NOT have documentation supporting YOUR claims. I'll take your lack of backup documentation as proof you are pulling figures from your backside. If you have supporting documentation, bring it out.

BTW, jumping to insults does NOT make you look smart or cool, just thought you'd like to know that.

That's the way I see it too. I did not consider it much of a gamble to buy a new Range Rover and I have been rewarded by the most reliable vehicle over the first eight months that I have ever owned. In fact it is way ahead of my Toyota Land Cruiser over the same period which had a [difficult to sort] wheel alignment problem and needed a new fog lamp and drivers seatbelt in the same timeframe.

Huw