The Dynasty and New Yorker are significantly larger cars than the Stratus, Malibu, Accord and Camry. More LHS and 300M sized - bigger than a VandenPlas or Sovreign Jag. Bigger than a 3500 or 3.5 Rover. Almost the size of a small Rolls. As for the Taurus, it sure feels like a smaller car than the Dynasty/New Yorker. The Crown Vic IS larger. The Avalon is roughly the same size.
My brother's shop services a fleet of limos. The only ones blowing smoke rings are the Caddies. I don't think there's a limo in the fleet with less than 300,000Km on it. The Lincs and Crown Vics just keep on going like the Energizer Bunny, while the Caddies keep coming back like an onion sandwich.
"C. E. White" wrote: | | Art wrote: | >
| > Hi Mike... I see you found the Chrysler group. | >
| > The old technology give away on the CV is the wheelbase. Everytime I see | > one on the road (not often) I wonder where the people in the backseat put | > their legs. | | They put them on the floor. I am 6'3" and I never have any | trouble riding in the back of my Mom's Grand Marquis.
They may put their feet on the floor. If they put their LEGS on the floor, this I got to see! :)
By the way, the new Five Hundred has nearly TWICE the knee room in the back seat that the Panthers (CV and GM) have....
john cline ii, who thinks someone is confused....
So you are telling all of us that "Mr Wagoner" who did not form the company, does not own a controlling interest in the company and did not raise the funds to create the company is exponentially more valuable than the guy working on the line? Than the VP who's ready to take his job? Than the Sr Manager? If so you are either naive or delusional. "Mr. Wagoner" has not done as good a job as any number of any European CEO's earning a fraction of what he "receives".
You are saying that Mr Wagoner" is the absolute best that could be retained? I'm somewhat sceptical. As are, I would imagine the shareholders of Toyota who are getting a MUCH better bang for their investment buck (or Yen as the case may be)
Not cheap, efficiently. Say tie his wage exclusively to the performance of the company. If the company does better than before he arrived, paid. Worse, No-Pay. Sounds simple & if he is a good as you state, he'd jump at the chance.
Don't think that's the point here.
Hmm..... Ask the People in Flint Michigan their opinion on this matter.
Ahh yes....So that we can retain world stability, low oil prices, & good relations with the allies..... I'm not GWB's enemy, But I think there are better candidates (not that I'm a Kerry fan by any measure)
Tell me Geoff. Are you happy with your Car Insurance Premiums? Odds are that your insurance company has money invested in GM / Ford & other large Blue chip companies with similar pay scales for the CEO's. Guess who's premium dollars are helping to pay for these bloated salaries.... These are real Dollars & a pile of quality dollars have to be shaved off of every car to pay that wage.
We love the cars, not the Business school graduates who couldn't get a job at Enron or Tyco or Arthur Anderson or Adelphia or or or or....
Agreed
maybe yes, maybe no
Right.... A car manufacturer that is unable to retain it's massive market share and is forced to go after a completely different market in order to survive. (tells one more about the banking industry than it does the auto sector)
The stock market is not supposed to be gambling. Ever heard of a prospectus? or an Audit? The people at Enron & Tyco forgot about those as well.
Hmm... If you realized how little effort many of these people at the top put in to get or retain their positions you may well change your view (perhaps time will be a patient enough educator for you) if it doesn't upset you at the moment because you do not feel affect feel blessed. However don't forget another place and time ("let them eat cake") where there was a similar massive class divide. ("Petite Bourgeois") which was followed by a change in the economic structure & the ensuing "removal of the heads" of various establishments.
The people of France suffered quite badly, the elite's only suffered very briefly whilst their heads were removed.
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. We should be striving for a Meritocracy not a return to Feudal rule under any other name.
PS this isn't intended as a personal attack, merely a critique of your points.
Even if you didn't buy any stock "you" own stock. Through your insurance company, your state, your town/city, your bank etc. I'll bet that you'd love a 10% + cut in your taxes with the same level of service. if they got a better return on their investments you could have that. Instead..............
I can't even begin to comment on the last three paragraphs.
Jeeze, Those Japs SUCK at crime ! ! !
We're #1 We're #1 We're #1 YEAH ! ! !
PS I think that the cops choose the rear drives is that they are much less likely to spill their coffee's or lose their donuts during chases (nice soft ride). Whereas the Japs, Brits & other lots don't have access Tim Hortons, Dunkin Donuts, Krispy Kreme etc....
PPS, I also think the relative age of the populations in question has a determinant factor on violet crimes. As the police here are slapping themselves on the back for accomplishing great leaps in crime reduction as the baby boom ages....
They're a great tool for a job.
Carving up a canyon road? give me a Cosworth Escort or Lotus Esprit turbo any day.
Doing double nickle across 5 states in an afternoon? Crown Vic, A/C, hot coffee, a box of dounuts and XM radio without question.
Ahh... that's where you are wrong.
See on a day like today when the Provice of Ontario gave Ford $100 Million tied to the Federal $100 Million bribe to keep Ford production going here in Ontario, we're part of Canada.
However "Tomorrow" when Ontario signs a deal with Michigan, Ohio & New York to further mesh the power grids it will be Southern Ontario - USA (foot note, "Ontario" is short for "The Greater Toronto Area")
The 500 has a larger trunk as well, it is huge. The 500 and Montego get their room from a higher roof line and elevated seating position.. The CV/GM has more hip room and the superior handling of RWD. To get the 500 to handle one, well one well need to purchase the more expensive AWD version which is biased to the rear.
mike hunt
john cl>
I wonder where the people in the
Ah yes but nobody is spending their last dollar or leaving everything they own or even their family to swim on a raft, hide in a cargo box, die in the desert or the wheel well of an plane to get to any of those other countries are they?
mike hunt
John Horner wrote:
I see the service records of thousands of them in our fleet service business. I know how well they perform, are built and hold up. I was merely pointing to the outstanding value of the CV/GM.. It is your money spend it where you wish, I could not car less. Personally I drive a
2005 Lincoln LS V8 and a 2003 Mustang GT convertible.mike hunt
John Horner wrote:
| The 500 has a larger trunk as well, it is huge. The 500 and | Montego get their room from a higher roof line and elevated | seating position.. The CV/GM has more hip room | and the superior handling of RWD. To get the 500 to handle one, | well one well need to purchase the more expensive AWD version | which is biased to the rear.
BZZZT. I'm sorry, but that is not correct.
The Five Hundred/Montego AWD system drives the front wheels ONLY, unless and until slippage is detected, when it can send some or all of the power to the rear wheels. Say Haldex....
john cline ii, who hopes that helps....
"C. E. White" wrote: > steve wrote: > > > Thanks! Just to clarify, I don?t care too much if it is domestic. > I > > really like the simplicity, and seat arrangment of Dynasty (I can > > easily pack 6-7 people in there). > > Are you talking about this car - >
Ed, thank you! It is nice to get such a thorough response. Yes, I am talking about that Dynasty. My Dynasty can comfortably sit 6 people (maybe more). I will look at Toyota Avalon and Ford C.V. Chrysler
300 has also been suggested on this thread, so I will take a look as well. Thank you again.If you are thinking about an Avalon, drive one with a bunch of miles on it first. I own a 300M and an Avalon and the Avalon is a rattle box. And that is one of the better features.
If you look at the specs for the various cars mentioned, the only area where the Dynasty is significantly "bigger" than an Stratus, Accord, Malibu, or Camry is the overall lenght and the trunk size. In fact it is smaller in many dimensions that matter (interior room) compared to the Accord, Malibu, and Camry and smaller than the Taurus in almost every dimension. It is closer to the Stratus in size than to the 300 - at least on the outside. The 300 has terrible intreior room for such a large heavy car - I guess it really is a throw back to the "good" old days of Chrysler.
Here are the comparisons:
Dynasty Accord Taurus Malibu Camry Status 300 Wheelbase, in. 104.5 107.9 108.5 108.3 107.1 108.0 120.0 Overall Length, in. 193.6 189.5 197.6 188.3 189.2 191.2 196.8 Overall Width, in. 68.9 71.5 73.0 69.9 70.7 70.6 74.1 Overall Height, in. 53.6 57.1 56.1 57.5 58.7 54.9 58.4 Curb Weight, lbs. 3276 3053 3313 3297 3362 3182 3711 Cargo Volume, cu. ft. 16.5 14.0 17.0 15.4 16.7 16.0 16.0 Seating Capacity 6 5 5or6 5 5 5 5 Front Head Room, in. 38.3 38.3 40.0 39.4 39.2 37.6 38.7 Front Leg Room, in. 41.9 42.6 42.2 41.9 41.6 42.3 41.8 Rear Head Room, in. 37.8 36.8 38.1 37.6 38.4 35.8 38.0 Rear Leg Room, in. 38.9 36.8 38.9 38.5 37.8 38.1 40.2
Check the specs above, the Taurus is bigger than the Dynasty in almost every dimension. The Avalon is little more than a widened Camry with some extra sheet metal tacked on to make it look bigger.
Ed
I actually have an Ecotech 4 in a Saturn and really like it. Of course I only have 20,000 miles on the engine., but I swear I've never had an engine that keeps the oil looking so clean and that is with 6,000 mile oil changes. I keep waitng for the oil change indicator to tell me it is time to change oil, but so far, I've always changed it before the light came on becasue of convenience issues (changing before a trip, or ona slow weekend). So far the engine has not leaked any oil, or given me the slightest reasons to worry. Maybe it will turn south before 100,000 miles, but at this point I am a very pleased. I only wish the VTi transmission would inspire as much confidence. This is the first GM car I have ever owned, and so far, I am very pleased. It is not like the old days when my uncles always used to leave oil spots all over our driveway when they visited in their varous GM products.
I've been associated with so many crappy Chrysler products, it would take a lot of convincing before I'd buy anything from DC.
Ed
Depends what years you are looking at, I guess. My New Yorker sitting beside the neighbour's Camry, is DEFINITELY larger. Travelling in the New Yorker or friend's Camry, the Chrysler DEFINITELY has more room, width and length and hieght.
The new Camry is a bit bigger.
To tell you the truth, I'm not bothered by my insurance premiums. I live in an area with a huge population and a lot of crime, yet my premiums are still affordable with decent coverage and low deductables. I've got no problem with how State Farm or Allstate or AAA spend their money. Why do you?
For somebody who's not against W, by the way, you sure sound like a lib to me.
--Geoff
Look, the world changed in the 1970s, and America's borders started to open up. You expected GM to retain the market share it had in the 1960s when there was virtually NO foreign competition worth mentioning?
Like I said before, what they make and what they do to get it is none of my damn business, and I think it ought to be viewed as same by everyone else. That said, I posited some *really good* reasons why the people on top make the money they do. Debate those, whydontcha?
However don't forget another place and time ("let them eat
Good Lord, 'class divide'? Horsepucky. The 'class divide' is being manufactured by the American Left. It's a complete fabrication!
Everyone else seems to realize that you get what you want in this country through creativity, dedication and effort.
There's no danger of a return to feudalism in America. And I tire quickly of comparisons between (socialist) Europe and the United States. Of course Europe's economy sucks and the U.S. people get paid better and have a higher standard of living. This comes as a surprise to you?
Europe's problem is that it has been seduced by socialism and leftist policy. Things will get far, far worse there before they improve.
I appreciate the distinction.
--Geoff
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