If her health insurance didn't pay to the terms and conditions of the policy,
then go to court. However, IF she didn't have insurance then she obviously
_chose_ not to have health insurance before she got sick. That was a bad
choice...a gamble taken and lost. It is not the government's fault for the
choices we make. You certainly don't expect a company to say, "sure we'll
insure you now for $300-$400 a month now that we have to pony-up
$500,000.00...it ain't gonna happen. It's like asking a homeowners insurance
company to give you a policy after your house burns down...it ain't gonna
happen! Folks, get health insurance NOW before you get sick! The odds are
very high you will need it!
| Sorry but I know someone who licked leukemia and has rheumatoid arthritis.
| Real estate agent so self employed and earns about $60k a year. No one will
| sell her health insurance.
If you are laid off you can only keep the old insurance for a limited length
of time under the law a few years ago. Not sure what the law is now. Also
the rates can go sky high when you are laid off and take the plan private.
Also the old company can lay off a bunch of people, discontinue the old
health plan so the laid off people are not eligible to continue in the old
plan. Then they start a new plan for the current employees. Or in some
cases the companies go out of business leaving people without health
insurance. I guess you live a sheltered life.
In the U.S., you would be taling about continuation under the COBRA Act.
I believe they must make it available to continue you under the plan you
were under at the time of layoff. BTW - If you get laid off and your
previous employer tries to play games with your eligibility for COBRA or
what's available under COBRA, call the Department of Labor - they
absolutely **LOVE** to go after companies that try to skirt the law in
this area. I called the DoL about something that a previous employer
was telling me that didn't jive with what the COBRA Act itself seemed to
say on the subject, and when I explained the question to the DoL, I had
to hold the DoL off from going after them - they begged me to turn them
loose on them. I was able to use that fact as leverage to get the
previous employer to do what the Act required, and they changed their
tune **VERY** quickly (sometimes I wish I had turned the DoL loose on
them - they deserved it for several reasons - for one thing, they - a
French-owned company - laid off a bunch of Americans in their U.S.-based
plant in order to bring French employees over to fill the same spots - a
big no-no according to U.S. federal labor laws. There were other
sleeze-ball things they did too that I won't go into).
Always a risk, but you could also walk out your door and get run over by
a truck too. 8^)
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")
Its called COBRA insurance when you get laid off or quit a job. Its
expensive yes, but its insurance. Its not too shabby. You almost always
get something in the mail after terminating employment in anyway. I know I
always have. Plus I get offered the extensions on my insurance that I had
with the company I worked for. You can buy insurance, there is just a cost.
There are even insurance companies that will insure you regardless but you
will pay a premium. ( a major premium, especially women due to the
I've been laid off before and you're full of crappola! There are many health
insurance options out there from many different providers that will write
policies with different coverage options. Have you not looked for them?
| If you are laid off you can only keep the old insurance for a limited length
| of time under the law a few years ago. Not sure what the law is now. Also
| the rates can go sky high when you are laid off and take the plan private.
| Also the old company can lay off a bunch of people, discontinue the old
| health plan so the laid off people are not eligible to continue in the old
| plan. Then they start a new plan for the current employees. Or in some
| cases the companies go out of business leaving people without health
| insurance. I guess you live a sheltered life.
If you mean stating the facts, you're right. You can get different
types of insurance from many sources. They may not be cheap, but
they're out there. And there are plenty of safety nets out there for
those in dire straits.
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")
Let me give you an example of a safety net. There is low cost subsidized
health insurance available in most states for children with no coverage.
But it is limited and on a first come first serve basis. The demand is much
higher than the supply, at least in NC.
| > I've been laid off before and you're full of crappola! There are many
| > insurance options out there from many different providers that will write
| > policies with different coverage options. Have you not looked for them?
| Spoken like a true republican.
And that makes it factually incorrect...how?
I don't have a lot of compassion for people who demand "free" stuff
that somebody else has to pay for. Especially when that "somebody
else" is *me*.
Look, Dan, the group of people who want socialized medicine in
America are the same ones who demand free car repair. There is a part
of human nature that causes us to feel entitled to getting things at
no cost. The better among us resist the urge to demand stuff for
Now there are things which government provides, however imperfectly,
because it is most expedient for it to do so. Not the best, mind you,
just the most expedient. National defense. Roads. The courts.
Police and fire service.
But medicine? We need to nationalize 1/7th of our economy? And in so
doing reduce the level of service to what can be found in Canada or
Great Britain? No, thank you!
I *like* having well-paid, competent doctors who perform their
services promptly because of the competitive environment. I *like*
having a choice of hospitals, each offering different areas of
medicine as their specialty. And I *like* having the benefit of
living in a country with the best medicine in the world. Please
*don't* screw it up because not everyone can just walk right in and
pay cash! Don't make a great system not work well for *anyone*
because it doesn't currently work for a minority today!
When people who can't get or can't afford health insurance get the
sniffles or a hangnail or the flu, they go to the emergency room because
that's the only access they have to health care. Hospitals do not turn
away ER patients because they cannot pay. As a result, all of us pay, and
we pay a whole hell of a lot more than if there were some comprehensive
system to take care of these people.
And even the best and poorest of us bleed when cut.
You seem to be confusing me with someone who thinks the US should have
nationalized health care.
You seem to know nothing about the level of service in Canada. In Canada,
most people with most ailments get the treatment they need quickly and
efficiently and with great competence. (How do I know? Well, I've lived
here for the past few years. How do *you* know? Sumpin' you heard on Rush
There is no lack of choice in doctors and hospitals in Canada. The notion
that Canadians don't get to choose their doctors or their hospitals is a
HMO's are "great"? Horseshit. If you want to talk about lack of choice in
doctors and hospitals, HMOs are what we're going to discuss.
If you have a problem with your HMO, you have the wrong HMO. I
have been covered by an HMO for nearly twenty years. There are
page after page of doctors, both GP's specialist, hospitals and
pharmacies where I can go for treatment or medications. There
are no lifetime limits
or high deductibles, $10 for a GP, $25 for a specialist. I have
never had a problem obtaining the superior services offered by my
HMO and the fee is less than for lower, less comprehensive
coverage, offered under Medicare or my previous BC/BS coverage.
"Daniel J. Stern" wrote:
Yep. And when a lot of those same people with hangnails need a ride to
get to the ER, they call 911. There's another flagrant abuse. Do we need a
'comprehensive system' to cover taxicab service too, Dan?
I'd like to know what you're calling your 'comprehensive system' if
socialized medicine (a.k.a. nationalized health care) isn't the correct
You like punitive taxation for little in return, eh? Or is it maybe the
100 km/h national speed limit that was the big attraction?
Perhaps it was the climate!
How do *you* know? Sumpin' you heard on Rush
Actually, no. My source of information on the state of Canadian health
care is from my Canadian co-workers who commute here from Windsor. And
the truth is, they all carry U.S. health insurance at extra cost to
themselves, because when they really need care they want to come *here*.
Anecdotal, I know. So is your assertion that 'most people with most
ailments' blah, blah blah. In addition, I'll see your 'most people with
most ailments' and raise you to 'most people with *all* ailments' --
which is the situation in the US.
And Canada's isn't a particularly bad socialized system. From my
co-workers in Great Britian, I hear that the situation is truly dire.
Emergency room queues that can last for days. (DAS care to comment?)
Maybe in Greater Toronto this is true. I occasionally listen to
*Canadian* talk radio (you know, during the hours that Limbaugh isn't
on here in the US) and hear the locals out in Canadian farm country
bitch about how poor the health care is in southwest Ontario. I'm sure
its worse in the other provinces, I just don't pick them up on my car
Y'know Dan, Canada is just a few miles away. It's not hard for somebody
in Detroit to know what the score is across the river. All I have to do is
flip around the tuner and pay attention to what's going on.
You, on the other hand. are living in the single richest town in Canada,
the one that Canadians all bitch about getting the lions share of the
tax benefit. Then you try to extrapolate your experience to that of
Canadians in general. Somehow I doubt that's close to being the case.
That being said, there are places in rural America where you don't have
as many choices as we do here. That's one _big_ reason why I won't
live in 'em.
There's a parallel health care system in America provided for our
military veterans. My father-in-law is stuck with that beast of a
system. I'm sure most anyone subject to the VA system would agree that
*government run* system sucks ass. Who in their right mind would want
to turn over more of our health care to the government after seeing its
performance in the VA system?
I don't have an HMO. I've got PPO coverage. And it's just
fine, thank you. I go anywhere I want to *in the world* and it's
covered. And for the price of selecting a doctor that participates
'in-network' -- and it's a big network -- I go for just a minor
deductible in addition to my monthly premiums. Paying for medical care
just is *not* a concern for me.
I've had a choice of cheaper HMO-style coverage. I turned it down,
knowing full well that you get what you pay for. So my paychecks are a little
smaller than my HMO-choosing co-workers.
So what? Me, my wife and two kids are covered by the best damn medical
system anywhere in the world. I'm willing to pay for that. Why isn't anyone
It all comes down to choices and priorities. If your priorities are
such that taking care of your health and that of your family isn't
paramount, then I guess you will eventually have reason to bitch about
the cost of health care in America. Too friggin' bad.
What I truly dislike is the idea that because *my* priorities are such
that health care IS paramount that I'm accused of being somehow less
than compassionate when others who made poor choices complain and I turn
a deaf ear. Natural selection at work, IMO.
Funny, there's a pattern here. I buy and pay for medical insurance the
same way I buy and pay for automobile insurance. My risks are managed!
So what's the problem?
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:40:24 -0400, Geoff
I agree with a bit of what written in this portion
Not if you've got BUPA ( British Private health insurance) It allows
for the 2 tier system to operate efficiently. Worked wonders for my
In-laws to que jump when they needed to.
Here in Canada when we want quicker / more personal service we've got
to travel to the US.
Any one that's truly happy with the CDN system either does that, or
has been brainwashed into believing the propaganda that the
politicians and health unions spread. (And yes that would be the same
politicians who fly to the states for same day MRI scans etc)
I like the private choice of the US system. Though I do believe that
a health "floor" should be provided for. i.e. ER & communicable
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