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Here's a great case. A guy gets tested for HIV and it comes back positive. Gets it verified and it comes back negatives but no one notices. He is treated for HIV for 8 years and the guy is thinking he could die any day,
especially when he catches a cold. Finally the doctor notices the negative HIV results and has him checked again. Negative again. Big OOPS.
Almost forgot the one last year at Duke Hospital. They give a teenager a heart transplant but no one bothered to check the blood type. She was dead in a few days.
These things just should not happen. It is called quality control and in general, US hospitals don't get it.

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On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:27:44 GMT, "Art"

Bah..... O+, AB- what's the difference?
Besides They figured it out in the end right? Give the parents $20K for their daughters life (ought to cover a nice funeral anyways) brush it under the rug and carry on. If parasitic lawyers get involved a doctor could get disciplined and protocols might have to change. Best that folks don't sue.
Remember the client's motto: My Lawyer is a Great guy, Everyone else's Lawyers are pond scum.
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Full_Name wrote:

Thanks for trivializing a tragedy. And what do you do for a living?
Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")
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wrote:

At the moment I'm working for an insurance company cleaning up files that are years out of compliance and horribly messed up. But I am going back to school to finish up my post grad work.
So I do have a bit of experience handling medical incompetence & dealing with lawyers.
With regards to "trivializing"... It's called Satire
sat·ire n. A literary work in which human vice or folly is attacked through irony, derision, or wit. The branch of literature constituting such works. See Synonyms at caricature. Irony, sarcasm, or caustic wit used to attack or expose folly, vice, or stupidity. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Latin satira, probably alteration (influenced by Greek satur, satyr, and saturos, burlesque of a mythical episode), of (lanx) satura, fruit (plate) mixture, from feminine of satur, sated, well-fitted. See s- in Indo-European Roots.]
PS I've had personal experiance with both good MD's & Bad. Lawsuits don't scare good MD's.
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Full_Name wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No - they just loudly complain about the malpractice insurance premiums. So you're telling me that a good physician is not concerned about being sued for something that is not his/her fault when real world says they should be? You're FOS.
Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")
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wrote:

Lawsuits don't scare Good MD's. Jury's full of incompetent morons do.
You have no doubt noticed that America is the land of doctors with sky high malpractice insurance premiums.
But, have you also noticed that the US is also the land where the put the determination of financial compensation in the hands of complete idiots?
What other civilized country does that? If you can't see that connection there is little else that I can do to explain my position.
PS The Trailer park & the Springer show isn't actually the real world. Oh also, just a FYI that Hilton girl's TV show isn't the "real world either" A good doctor screens and educates his patients before he ever lifts a scalpel.
PPS. Don't take it so personally, it's just an opinion.
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Full_Name wrote:

How do you separate the two (hint: you can't unless you settle as if you are guilty even if you aren't). Sounds like a semantics game to me. Jurys full of incompetent morons are *WHY* good MD's might ought to be scared of lawsuits.
Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")
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wrote:

You are correct with regards to how I posted what I posted.
What my logic was that moron juries deciding the financial settlement are the source of the problem. What I had intended was the notion that although we should still retain the Jury system for the guilt/innocence aspect, financial awards should be determined by financial experts. (to prevent the "grandma groin splash cash pay outs").
I don't think that most of us in this group would begrudge the old lady some compensation. I just think that for most of us a "sorry here's a free coffee" & we'll pay part of your medical bills should have sufficed"
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He was making a point. One that a bunch of you don't seem to understand. Bush hates lawyers but he hired a bunch when being interviewed over the CIA outing by Novak.
wrote:

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Art wrote:

You will never get the human factor (i.e., the ability to make errors) out of a system no matter how good it is. You chose the wrong hospital (Duke) to pick on for criticism. They saved my daughter's life with exceptional care with a childhood cancer that she wasn't supposed to survive. We traveled 110 miles for her diagnosis and treatments when there were other institutions a lot closer to us that, according to some, were just as qualified.
You should have read the inexcusable horror stories on the internet support group for the same very rare disease (200 cases a year diagnosed in the U.S.) that my daughter had, posted by parents in Canada and England about their kids because of the metered care. And guess where super-rich foreign dignitaries brought their kids to be treated for very life-threatening diseases (hint - it wasn't Canada or England).
Not excusing an awful mistake that someone at Duke may have made - I'm sure they paid dearly for it, as obviously did the teenager and her family in a very different way, but there are unfortunate mistakes everywhere and in every system. I am no apologist for our system either - it certainly has serious problems. But there are a lot worse. We need to fix it rather than make it worse.
Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")
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Domestic car companies used to deliver cars with scores of defects. They claimed that was the best they could do until faced with Japanese competition. Now they count defects per hundred cars. The medical industry is where the domestic car industry was decades ago. I'm glad to hear that Duke successfully treated your daughter but patients should not be relying on serendipity while in a hospital. Duke and government regulators found terrible flaws in their system after the transplant error. That might not seem too bad but just a few years prior, other problems were found at Duke that were so bad that they were removed from the list to run certain medical studies... an extreme sanction used because Duke failed to respond to several warnings about their processes. Duke promised to clean up their act then but apparently did not. We will never know what Duke paid in damages for the transplant error because it was kept confidential. Most of these messes are no longer public knowledge because Duke, like many hospitals, sneak in a binding arbitration clause with all the other papers you sign at admission. That way the cases never get to court and don't face much public scrutiny.

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Art wrote:

I appreciate that, Art. She's now married and has a son, and is the picture of health.

I'll take your word for it. That is unfortunate. Again, not making excuses for them, but you will find glaring examples of human fallibility no matter what the system. I guess you have to ask which system has the best balance of oversight and correction of problems, and still get results at a reasonable cost. I would agree with you that we are far from the ideal (similar to what Churchill said about Democracy being "...the worst form of government except for all the others").

--
Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
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Art wrote:

Art,
I got news for you - everybody screws up sooner or later. I don't mind a system where injured parties are reasonably compensated for someone else's mistakes. I do mind a system where an honest mistake become some sort of entry in to an enormous lottery.
Ed
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So you are saying that a jury of your peers is inherently unfair to doctors? You think somehow when someone gets jury duty they turn off their brain? I don't think so. Please provide a scientific explanation for your conclusion.

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Art wrote:

You seem to want science only when it's unattainable and can't hurt your position, Art.
It's well known and understood that most of the legal cases that settle out of court do so because both sides recognize that letting the morons who find themselves on the typical jury decide the case is usually not for the better of anyone.
Besides that, I think a doctor would have a tough time getting a jury of his peers. How many medical professionals serve jury duty? And what are the chances that a group of them would find themselves on the same jury for a medical malpractice lawsuit?
--Geoff
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Most cases are settled out of court because litigation is very expensive. And no one knows what the judge will do or what the jury will do. In a way the inherent inefficiency of the court system leads to an efficient settlement system.

doctors?
I
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If that is what you think, then perhaps you should think about that some more. Any attorney will tell you the reason they can easily manipulate a jury is because the people sitting in the jury box are the ones that were not smart enough to get themselves out of jury duty. ;)
mike hunt
Art wrote:

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Art wrote:

I think juries are manipulated into making unreasonable awards. Do I need a scientific explanation for what seems so apparent in many cases?
Juries are led to believe only the rich are paying. You know, the evil insurance companies, or the evil large corporations. You aren't really hurting the little guy when you award millions to an injured party - right? Anybody that believes that is an idiot and the perfect candidate for a civil jury.
I have never been on a jury. I've been on the list twice but never actually had to go downtown so to speak. A fellow engineer has had to join the pool a couple of times, but both times he was immediately excused the minute he admitted he was an engineer. I am sure that no trial lawyer would ever want me on a jury. I am old, white, and have a degree in engineering. I would be impervious to most of the BS they throw out.
As I said before. I have no problems with actual and reasonable damages being awarded. I do have a problem with punitive damages. If there is willful negligence involved, put the perpetrator in jail, don't shower money on the injured person and some scum trial lawyer. If you think economic sanctions are the only ones that work, then have the government fine the perpetrators and use the money to benefit society.
Ed
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On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:15:23 -0400, "C. E. White"

_________________________________________________________
Normally I don't do "me too" posts, but me too!
--
BT

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C. E. White wrote:

same for me.. good thinking ED... thats the way it was years ago.. i remember my grandfather(who was like most people back then in the 40's and 50's)... if you sued someone you had better have a good reason to do so.. if you got hit by a cop.. the reasoning was that if you did nothing wrong you would never have got hit in the first place... if you did something wrong you go to jail..... but that was the difference back then and now.. now everyone wants something for nothing................ and they have a plague of locus that go by the name of attorneys that get paid to get you something for nothing..... and they get about 40 percent of that something.....
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