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On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:10:25 GMT, " snipped-for-privacy@sprynet.com"


I recall Geoff was saying in an earlier post something about living in a Capitalist society. "scum trial lawyers" help capitalism! How? They take money that is being poorly utilized by insurance companies (government and corporate bonds) and disperse it throughout the society via the springer crowd.
Look at Mike Tyson. $300 Million to 0.00 in the blink of an eye.
Same with most of these "lawsuit lottery winners" A year or two of Cheap booze, cheaper women and 1 fast car and they're either organ donor's or back living at the trailer park. That money spurs the economy helping the growth of developing industries. See !? "scum sucking lawyers" and their "white trash" clientele are an integral part of the nations economy.
For the socialists in the group it's wealth "redistribution" at it's most base.
For anyone who's ever worked in the insurance field its either laughable or maddening. (I'm more the former)
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I must disagree. Transferring money from one person or group to another person or group does *not* spur the economy. True wealth can only be created by the sweat of one's brow, both personally and nation-wide. Paper shuffles do not do anything of benefit to the economy as a whole.
--
BT

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Bill Turner wrote:

Sure it can. Transferring money to a person who will invest it in something that increases our GDP is adding to the economy. Someone who just hoards their money under a mattress does nothing to increase wealth. So moving money from a place where it isn't working to a place where it can work, definitely benefits the economy as a whole.
Matt
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wrote:

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Except that nobody "hoards" money except a few hermits up in the hills. Money is always invested, one way or the other.
--
BT

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wrote:

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In that example, one could argue that society is better off, while the shopkeeper is less well off.
Far more likely, however, is the shopkeeper keeps his money either in a savings account, invested in stocks or bonds or in some kind of commercial account. All of which make society better off.
--
BT

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Bill Turner wrote:

Right answer. 8^) (Hmmm - what if he had it in Enron stock? rhetorical question)
Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")
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wrote:

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When the stock crashed, he would be worse off while anyone who wished to purchase the stock would be better off. Net result for society = zero.
Remember, when the stock crashed, nothing of real physical value was lost, only the price put on it. It was terrible for the employees but beneficial for society as a whole.
--
BT

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If that is what your really believe, you could be a poster boy for convoluted thinking what our liberal schools and colleges are producing today. What a sad state of affairs.
mike hunt
Bill Turner wrote:

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Sorry but there is one thing worse than inflation and it is deflation. Tons of people holding expensive debt with collateral worth half and assets being sold off. Happened in Japan.

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Matt Whiting wrote:

I was responding to your response to BT in which he (BT) said: "Transferring money from one person or group to another person or group does *not* spur the economy. True wealth can only be created by the sweat of one's brow, both personally and nation-wide. Paper shuffles do not do anything of benefit to the economy as a whole." and you replied, in part, that "Sure it can...Someone who just hoards their money under a mattress does nothing to increase wealth. So moving money from a place where it isn't working to a place where it can work, definitely benefits the economy as a whole." There are some people who would take that to mean, and who actually think about the economy in terms of, property damage actually creating wealth (they equate stimulating the economy with creating wealth) even though you may not have actually said that. In fact, in economics, this type of fallacious thinking has a name that is given to it - I forget it exactly, but, in the field of economics, it's commonly referred to as the "shop keeper's broken window" or the "jewelry store owner's broken window" (or some similar phrasing) mentallity, and is used to illustrate the fallacy of certain false principles.
Sorry if I insulted you by insinuating that you might think that way. I was just waving off others who might misinterpret what you were saying and falling into the common misconception which only seems to be the same as what you were saying but in fact is not. 8^)
Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")
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Bill Putney wrote:

Bill, that is really a stretch to go from what BT and I said to suggesting we were advocating property damage!

I wasn't insulted as much as confused as to where you created that theory from given what I'd written. I hadn't even implied causing intentional damage, I simply said that putting idle money to work can benefit the economy.
Matt
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You mean the way Warren Buffit did? ;)
mike hunt
Bill Turner wrote:

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On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:28:13 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com wrote:

I like the Buffit response. Though one does wonder why the Exxon Valdez <sp> spill was counted as adding to the GDP the year that happened (or why Exxon hasn't paid yet for the cleanup).
Wealth transfer in some circumstances works. (read a bit on the Plague's effect on the British economy and the effects of war mobilization in some countries, I won't mention the US but...).
I'm just saying that every toxic cloud has a silver lining (even if it is only shiny lead....
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On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:28:13 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com wrote:

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Warren Buffet did not "create" any wealth, he merely moved it from someone else's pocket to his own. He is richer, they are poorer. The net wealth of the nation is the same.
You're equating money with wealth. In the common vernacular they are often interchanged, but when discussing economic theory they are two different things.
--
BT

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Why? Did his 'work' not effect the GNP? Does he not pay those people that work for him? Are all of those working in the jobs that now exist, because of his products being sold and serviced, not compensated? Or do they not count because they work in air conditioned facilities and therefore do not work up a 'perspire?'
mike hunt
Bill Turner wrote:

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On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 19:59:35 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com wrote:

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All the money he "paid" his workers ultimately came from someone else's pocket and created nothing of any value except to Warren. The net wealth of the nation was not increased one penny.
By comparison, a worker who performs a useful service (installs your satellite dish) or actually makes something (assembles a car) has increased the net wealth of the nation.
I'm sure you will see no difference at all. :-)
--
BT

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Does that mean you believe that if one keeps their money under their mattress, rather placing it where it earns dividends or interest, nothing is created of any value and the economy will not be effected? Are you for real? Do you really believe, that the net wealth of the nation is not increased by those type of earnings? If indeed you do, then one is wasting their time trying to enlighten you on this subject. Bye!
mike hunt
Bill Turner wrote:

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On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:29:49 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com wrote:

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Somehow you got my meaning exactly backwards, I think. I'm not sure because there is something wrong with your first sentence. There seems to be a word missing between "rather" and "placing". Re-edit and sent it again and let's see if it will make sense.
--
BT

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On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:15:23 -0400, "C. E. White"

Science? Science? Please people let's keep religious "belief systems" out of a good thread.
Science, Christian Science, Scientology, Voodoo. You name it. It's all just a belief system.
(foot note). This is troll bait for the Under grads who've yet to critically examine that belief system
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On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:42:14 GMT, "Art"

Oprah made jury duty. Good enough explanation?
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