Modern Tires Ruin the Roads

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Many think the government should pay for their health care and prescription drugs, and as long as the roads are wearing out anyway, they should make
tires out of concrete and the roads out of rubber. Let government pay the bill rather than the car owners. LOL
mike
wrote:

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The problem is we are the government.
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Tell that to those that want the government to provide all of those 'free' services ;)
mike
wrote:

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Only if you are an MP or Bush.
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Those modern tire provide much better all weather traction and save lives. By the way I seldom see pebbles stuck in the tread of my Michelin Harmony all season tires. What inferior tires are you referring to.
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ROTFL!!
Ted
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On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 01:00:04 +0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio

Sunshine and rain do more damage.
Ban the weather.
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joe schmoe wrote:

Ice and road salt does far more damage to northern roads than does tires, sun, rain and pretty much everything else put together. Only a burning car is worse on the asphalt than ice and salt.
Obviously, this doesn't apply to southern climes.
Matt
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In my area there was a 750 foot portion of concrete built to interstate standards that lay dormant for 25 years... blocked off, it had no vehicular traffic, and negligible salt on it. It only had rain and freeze/thaw.
By the time the roadway got extended, it was a broken up mess.. they had to tear it all up and lay new concrete.
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Backyard Mechanic wrote:

Yep, the freeze/thaw is the big killer, but salt isn't great for concrete either.
Matt
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wrote:

The Freeze / Thaw issue is only so when water penetrates the surface. Salt is only an issue where it facilitates the melting of snow into openings in the surface. Smooth, thick concrete will easily last 20+ years.
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Oh yeah? You calling me a liar?
"In my area there was a 750 foot portion of concrete built to interstate standards that lay dormant for 25 years... blocked off, it had no vehicular traffic, and negligible salt on it. It only had rain and freeze/thaw.
By the time the roadway got extended, it was a broken up mess.. they had to tear it all up and lay new concrete."
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;) <<<<

interstate

had

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Not sure if I'm supposed to be upset and start a flame war. Too tired though.
I was tending to think of concrete sidewalks that are stamped 1940 with no cracks...
But then again they aren't built to interstate standards. They're built better :-)
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joe schmoe wrote:

Sidewalks tend to get a lot less salt that roads. And sidewalks tend to have fairly small blocks that can heave with the ground and not break. Most interstates concrete sections are at least 20' square and most are even larger. It is hard to heave such a large piece evenly enough to avoid large stresses in the concrete. Then you drive heavy trucks across them while they are heaved and bad things happen.

Probably!
Matt
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You can construct a roadway from here to there and because the subsoil may change, the stress points change with the subsoil changes. A depth of 18 inches over rock versus the same 18 inches over clay, sand, gravel, etc. Add in weather impact on subsoil and the problem is compounded.
As an example, in Maine, in the winter, the permafrost level rose toward the surface in an uneven pattern. Much of the subsoil was clay, but some of it was sand, or loam, and a good share of the region was swampy.
My front steps and rear steps were both made of solid pours of concrete. During part of the year they were flush with the house wall. In the winter, which was about 360 days of the years, the front steps were ok, but the back steps required me to step across a gap about 9 inches wide at the top, and the steps were now pitched at about 30 degrees down so one slip and you were down hard. And the carport and driveway were not bothered.
My neighbor had a similar problem with his front steps and driveway out by the curb.
So imagine a very large flat pour of concrete on a highway being pushed up in some point and not, or even lowered, in others across it's expanse. Add the weight of 18 wheelers and normal traffic on the stress points created and problems begin to develop very rapidly.
I hear the Al Can Highway was a mother to construct...
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On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 21:34:39 GMT, Backyard Mechanic

The secret is SMOOTH. As in WAY too smooth to provide adequate traction for safe highway driving. A textured concrete surface WILL deteriorate from freeze-thaw, and WILL end up with salt embeded in the concrete. Up here in the "great white north" the vast majority of highway surfaces are asphalt of one type or other. VERY little exposed concrete. The salt used on the roads has severely damaged MANY re-enforced concrete structures- like bridges bu corroding the encapsulated re-bar, and splitting the concrete.

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joe schmoe wrote:

It is water under the concrete that causes the biggest problem when it freezes. If the subgrade preparation and drainage isn't good, the entire slab will heave causing cracks over time.
Surface damage can and does occur from the very small shrinkage cracks that exist in virtually all concrete and these are susceptible to salt and water damage over time. Yes, good concrete will last 20 years, but I've seen concrete that didn't last 10. And even 20 years is pretty expensive now that concrete costs several million dollars per mile of four-lane highway.
Matt
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The surface of concrete is absorbant, if you have oil drips on the surface of the smoothest concrete they will stain. The places that the oil goes is where the water goes, and freeze thaw will soon etch and destroy the smooth surface.
Ted
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What I found surprising to learn just a few years ago was how little international exchange there was on the question of road surfacing materials. You'd think that companies would take the best practice and experience on a global basis and apply that. But they don't or, at least, didn't. Everybody was ploughing his own little furrow, so to speak.
I happened to sit next to someone on an airport shuttle bus who was on the way to (one of?) the first international conferences in this field. And it was being held in Iceland (hohoho!) to be on 'neutral' territory...
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