Motorists vs traffic cameras

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HLS wrote:


right, it is not illegal here either. What I'm talking about is if a driver is tooling along at the speed limit and the light turns yellow there may be a "dilemma zone" where he may be unable to stop before the line but also unable to make it into the intersection before the light turns red. This is VERY common with RLC installations.

Stealing money from you (and putting you more at risk of losing your license, and depending on what you do, possibly your job) for something you didn't do is a good thing? I fail to see how that follows.
nate
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I dont like it, but it served

more than 40 years when this shitteaux pulled me over. I keep an eye out for speed limits AND for cops now.
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HLS wrote:

I'll agree up to that point.

And that's what's wrong with law enforcement today. I don't know a single person who doesn't get more nervous when a cop is around instead of more relaxed, and I don't hang out with criminals either.
nate
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In NJ and PA, the law is that if you can safely stop when there is a yellow light, you are supposed to stop. Obviously, that is a judgment call.

In PA, for speed limits less than 60 mph, the judge may not find you guilty unless you are going 10 mph over the speed limit or 5 mph for speed limits over 55 mph.

In PA, if you're exceeding the speed limit in a construction zone, even only going 1 mph over the limit, the judge may find you guilty (i.e., the above limitations don't apply).
Unfortunately, there are too many deaths of road construction workers.
A lot of people seem to think of road safety rules as inconveniences, but lives *do* depend on them just like those pesky safety rules for construction workers building skyscrapers are important (e.g., wearing helmets, wearing safety harnesses so that workers don't fall to their deaths, no smoking around chemicals like gasoline). Personally, I like have a pulse, so I wear my seat belt when I drive, I rarely use a cell phone and stick to the speed limit (more or less).
Jeff
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Jeff wrote:

Some of them are, some of them have a purpose.

No, only some of them.

I'm betting on "more" if you're anything like the vast majority of road users.
*MOST* rules of the road are there for a reason - stopping for a red light or stop sign, yielding to those with the right of way, signaling, keeping right except to pass, etc. all serve a purpose and should be obeyed at all times.
Unfortunately, "gotcha" tactics like RLCs at intersections with short yellows, "construction zone" speed limits in areas where no work is being performed, speed limits 15 MPH or more below the 85th percentile speed of a road, etc. etc. etc. erode respect of motorists for the law - INCLUDING those that are actually there for safety.
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Jeff wrote:

of no return". You pick a spot about 40 feet from the stop line and once you go through that spot, even if the light turns yellow then you go on through, cautiously. That prevents someone jaming on the brakes at the last second and getting rear ended. Makes the decision of whether to stop or go through an intersection less stressful.
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It's kinda different for each vehicle, and speed and road condtions. On icy roads, I know that if I don't start stopping about half a block (at 20-25 mph) before the line, I'm not going to get stopped until I'm out in the intersection. I sort of keep a running calculation going in the back of my mind as I'm driving. Once I get to that 'point of no return', if the light turns yellow, I keep going, because I know that my vehicle will not be able to stop before the stop line even if I jam the brakes. If they short the yellow to make more tickets, to hell with them.
There was a boycott of Woodfield Mall because they had stoplight cameras. Supposedly they had a short yellow, too.
Sir Charles THE Curmudgeon
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CharlesTheCurmudgeon wrote:

A good rule of thumb is that most drivers feel that anything over 0.25-0.3G is harder braking than they are comfortable with. A typical stop is actually far less than that. So barring very inclement weather conditions driver comfort is the limiting factor, not traction.
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Driver comfort include not getting rearended by the guy following too close behind?
Sir Charles THE Curmudgeon
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CharlesTheCurmudgeon wrote:

yes, that too. 0.3G is probably harder than most drivers have ever decelerated on the street. 0.8G or higher probably would ensure a rear-ending given the awareness of the average driver.
nate
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In PA, if you're exceeding the speed limit in a construction zone, even only going 1 mph over the limit, the judge may find you guilty (i.e., the above limitations don't apply).
Unfortunately, there are too many deaths of road construction workers.
A lot of people seem to think of road safety rules as inconveniences, but lives *do* depend on them just like those pesky safety rules for construction workers building skyscrapers are important (e.g., wearing helmets, wearing safety harnesses so that workers don't fall to their deaths, no smoking around chemicals like gasoline). Personally, I like have a pulse, so I wear my seat belt when I drive, I rarely use a cell phone and stick to the speed limit (more or less).
Jeff
*********** There was no one working in the construction zone I had passed through (Sunday), but it is also more serious here if you are ticketed within an active construction zone.
I had actually left the zone and was in a 70 mph zone when I was stopped. I was going downhill with my cruise control at 70 but was strobed at 75 mph. Normally this would not get you a ticket in Texas, although technically I appeared to be guilty of a 5 mph overspeed.
I got deferred adjudication, which means this cannot be used against me for insurance, etc.
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Traffic cameras can not be use to prosecute a "moving offence" in Pennsylvania, with the exception of Philadelphia and Pittsburg. From what I know about the state Constitution I do not understand how those two cities get an exception, because a moving violation effects the driver privileges and how do the prove the owner was driving?
In Pennsylvania the duration of the three light settings is set by PaDOT, in the warrant that is issued to the jurisdiction to install the traffic signal. There is also a total time during to which the total cycle is limited. As to the duration of the Yellow Caution light it is set too the posted speed limit, so that a driver proceeding at the speed limit and within 100 feet will not get a red. A drive can not be charge with a violation one he has enter the intersection on yellow. E. E. If one is making a left turn in PA the Code requires you to do so from the LEFT CENTER of the intersection, not from behind the crosswalk or stop line. The Code also requires a driver to CLEAR the intersection once you enter the intersection, so if the light is yellow or even RED you must complete the turn. If the speed limit is the 55 MPH limit it has a longer duration than the 35 MPH limit. 55 and 35 are the standard assumed speed limits in Pennsylvania and need not be posted. The other permissible speeds like 65 must be posted within one half mile of each access points to the limited access highways. Any speed after one leaves a 65 MPH roadway MUST be posted albeit it 55 or 35. In "built up areas" the speed limit is 35 if no other speed limit is in force such as a 25 limit that PaDOT has determined is more prudent than 35. If a speed limit is other than 55 or 35 it must be posted every 1/2 mile with a sign to indicate the start and end of that speed limit.
Something one will see quit frequently in Pennsylvania is speed limit signs and other "Traffic Control Devices" posted on utility poles, in the Boroughs. They are not legal traffic control devices by definition. ALL legal traffic control signage MUST be attached to it own stanchion and in a way consistent with PaDOT regulations, as to height, distance from the roadway. color, size etc.
The state of Pennsylvania is the only state in which signs and road markings are NOT legal traffic control devices, only "recommendations" like YELLOW traffic signage and double yellow lines.
Pa DOT installs double yellow lines on clear stretches of roadway if there is less that 1/2 in which to pass but by themselves, in the absence of black on white "Do not Pass" or "No Passing Zone" signs, such double yellow lines are NOT legal traffic control devices and one can pass If the do so safely as describe in Title 75.
The PSP are the only police that us RADAR. The law requires a six mile leeway but the PSP by practice allows ten miles over the posted limit. Local police can not us RADAR, they use VASCAR. The law requires a leeway of 10 MPH. Distric Justices that hear traffic case GENERALLY do not convict at speed under 15 MPH.
One more, in Pennsylvania Sheriffs are NOT peace officers, they only take charge of the duties of the County Courts like transporting prisoners etc.. With the exception of in a few Counties, they are not armed.
wrote in message

In NJ and PA, the law is that if you can safely stop when there is a yellow light, you are supposed to stop. Obviously, that is a judgment call.

In PA, for speed limits less than 60 mph, the judge may not find you guilty unless you are going 10 mph over the speed limit or 5 mph for speed limits over 55 mph.

In PA, if you're exceeding the speed limit in a construction zone, even only going 1 mph over the limit, the judge may find you guilty (i.e., the above limitations don't apply).
Unfortunately, there are too many deaths of road construction workers.
A lot of people seem to think of road safety rules as inconveniences, but lives *do* depend on them just like those pesky safety rules for construction workers building skyscrapers are important (e.g., wearing helmets, wearing safety harnesses so that workers don't fall to their deaths, no smoking around chemicals like gasoline). Personally, I like have a pulse, so I wear my seat belt when I drive, I rarely use a cell phone and stick to the speed limit (more or less).
Jeff
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The article states: George Dunham, a village trustee in Schaumburg, says installing the red-light camera at the mall "wasn't about the revenue -- no one will believe that, but it wasn't."
-- Ron
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wrote:

Being intoxicated is a large factor, but speed is frequently a contributing factor. Stopping distance is proportional to the square of the speed. The severity of accidents goes up even more as speed increases.

The idea is to get people to obey the traffic laws, not raise money.
-- Ron
WRONG. Here in Chicago, everybody breaks the law. They 'increase enforcement' not to get people to obey the law, but to raise revenue, just like your typical speed trap does. That's why a certain stretch of I-294 is always 'under construction', so they can fine you 375 at a minimum and not just 100 or so.
It's all a 'revenue' gimmick. They can't raise taxes, so they harrass you with tickets. Cops gotta pay for their donuts somehow.
In Illinois, a lot of the traffic laws make no sense anyway. It's been a law since 1965 to signal at least 100 feet before making a turn, and when changing lanes, and nobody does it here.
Sir Charles THE Curmudgeon.
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CharlesTheCurmudgeon threw out:

In our area the cops get free coffee and donuts.
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Oh so you are one of the ass holes that stops at a red and doesnt signal until the light goes green, Maybe in your area of Chgo nobody signals well in advance , but where I am most do. And there are areas here where a certain group pulls out across traffic and just stops till they can turn, them ass holes, in some areas I would like to have a giant junk truck and hit em all.
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The goal should be to increase safety. The measures should be the number and severity of crashes as well as the free flow of traffic.
One thing that I think should be illegal is using cell phones while driving. And I mean cell phones at all, not just hands-free.

Actually, that law does make sense. It makes a lot of sense to know when people are going to turn so that you can take appropriate action not to hit the car, like get in the other lane.
Jeff

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wrote:

The goal should be to increase safety. The measures should be the number and severity of crashes as well as the free flow of traffic.
One thing that I think should be illegal is using cell phones while driving. And I mean cell phones at all, not just hands-free.

Actually, that law does make sense. It makes a lot of sense to know when people are going to turn so that you can take appropriate action not to hit the car, like get in the other lane.
Jeff
=============== Safety: The surveillance cameras should be put to better use. Any time they record an accident, the video should be posted online for the public to view. Even better, put them on all local TV channels.
Signaling: It also improves the flow of traffic. Any measure which minimizes the use of brakes is a good thing. Prevents the rubber band effect.
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wrote:

The goal should be to increase safety. The measures should be the number and severity of crashes as well as the free flow of traffic.
One thing that I think should be illegal is using cell phones while driving. And I mean cell phones at all, not just hands-free.

Actually, that law does make sense. It makes a lot of sense to know when people are going to turn so that you can take appropriate action not to hit the car, like get in the other lane.
Jeff
Yep, and I always follow it. What I can't stand are the idiots that slam on their brakes and THEN signal they are going to turn.
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wrote:

I've been handling two-way radios and cell phones while driving for 25 years now, so I naturally disagree with your argument and think that 'no cell phones while driving' is just another step for the nanny-state.

I'm the only person here that does it. I have an ex-girlfriend that made fun of the way I signaled my turns.
Sir Charles THE Curmudgeon
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