September 7, 2010, 9:34 am
Recently we took a vacation to Yellowstone Park, Glacier Park, and other
points of interest in Montana and Wyoming. We flew to Montana and rented a
car. I asked for a Nissan Xterra, but Hertz rented me a Chevrolet Traverse
instead (apparently GM is dumping them to the fleets since they had at least
10 of them at the Helena airport and we constantly saw them in Yellowstone).
We wanted the Xterra so we would have room far a couple of bikes inside.
Fortunately the Traverse did have enough room for two bikes (with some
maneuvering of the bikes and luggage).
The Traverse was probably the most loaded up car I have ever driven. It had
just about every possible option (sun roof, heated and cooled power seats,
with power recline, multi CD player, rear seat entertainment, AWD, 3.6L V6,
power lift gate, etc, etc).
The good stuff - very comfortable seats, decent power even at high altitude
and with the lower octane gas they sell in Montana, quiet (except in cross
winds), stable, OK gas mileage (averaged around 20 mpg for 2000 miles),
decent ergonomics (although they are falling into the Toyota practice of
scattering similar looking controls all over the place), smooth
transmission, zero problems during the trip.
The bad stuff - horrible sight lines (it felt like riding around in a cave
but it did have a back-up camera and the ultrasonic rear parking aide to
somewhat compensate), numb handling (which was uncomfortable on some of the
narrow winding mountain roads we drove on), somewhat sensitive to winds
(which again was uncomfortable on some mountain roads), poor rear access for
loading the bikes, mediocre plasticky interior (except for the seats which
were nice), mediocre ride.
I don't have much experience with current crossover vehicles. My only other
experience has been with my parent's recent vehicles - a Ford Freestyle
(totaled in an accident) and a Toyota Highlander (the replacement for the
Freestyle).
Of the three, I preferred the Freestyle. It had the best handling,
ergonomics, and was the quietest and cheapest (but was also under powered -
it was the original 3.0L V6 version). It was also the most car like. The
Traverse is the most SUV like, with the Highlander somewhere in between.
It is difficult to fairly compare the loaded up top of the line Traverse to
my Mother's base Highlander. For sure the V6 in the Traverse was much
quieter, smoother and more powerful than the big four cylinder in my
Mother's Highlander. But, the Highlander was likely much less expensive and
gets better gas mileage. The passenger room is a wash, although I am sure
loading the bike's into the Highlander would have been even more difficult
than loading them into the Traverse. The interior quality was similar, with
the Traverse maybe having a slight edge. The Traverse's handling and
stability was better than the Highlander, but the ride was much worse (but
then the Traverse is AWD, the Highlander Front Wheel Drive Only). The vision
out of the Highlander is much better than out of the Traverse (a result of
GM's preference for appearance over function??). I think the Highlander
looks better than the Traverse, but I think if you buy one of these
vehicles, looks is not high on your list of requirements. I have no idea
regarding reliability. My Mom's Highlander has been flawless after 6 months,
the Traverse was flawless for 2000+ miles (It had 7500 on the odometer when
we dropped it off).
I am not really in the market for a Crossover myself. If I was I doubt I'd
buy either the Traverse or the Highlander. I'd more likely be attracted to a
Honda Pilot or the new Explorer (the new "Crossover" version coming soon).
If I am going to buy a truckoid, I want it to look like a truck, not some
muscled up mini-van or a station wagon.
I was disappointed we did not get the Xterra. I only saw one rental Xterra
on the trip (none were in the lot at the Helena airport). I think it is
somewhat dishonest for Hertz to show you the Xterra as the mid-sized SUV
choice and then rent you a beefed up mini-van instead, but I guess all was
well in the end.
Ed
Re: My Experience Driving a Chevrolet Traverse
Nice SPAM!
--
We have met the enemy and he is us-- Pogo
Anyolmouse
Re: My Experience Driving a Chevrolet Traverse
Not all of the Freestyles had CVT transmissions. They offered a 6 speed
automatic as well in the Front Wheel Drive models. Has it happens, my
Mother's Freestyle did have the CVT. The CVT helped the performance, but the
performance was still not as strong as the Traverse. I assume the later
Freestyles (aka Taurus X) with the larger V6 and conventional automaitcs had
performance similar to the Traverse.
Ed
Re: My Experience Driving a Chevrolet Traverse
The problem with CVT tranny is the average driver does not know how to drive
them. Unlike a conventional automatic the CVT will not start in the lowest
drive range unless the throttle is fully depressed. The proper way to
start a CVT is to floor the throttle until one reaches the desired speed
then moderate the throttle as needed.
Re: My Experience Driving a Chevrolet Traverse
ya well I worked in a ford dealership that the enginers came to to find
out how to really fix there screw ups. So don`t try to play the dam
enginer card with me. the only thing max torque is is the most efficient
part of the eng output. that does not translate into the most efficent
accelerating of a specific load unless the eng is sized small enough to
use the least fuel in the accel mode. Or a smaller slower accel is almost
always more efficient, regardless of part throttle efficiency. KB
Re: My Experience Driving a Chevrolet Traverse
You answered you own question. Your response that "the only thing max
torque is the most efficient
part of the eng output," is WHY you use full throttle with a CVT you get to
the desired speed, whatever that speed may be. Think about it, would you
use third gear to go from a stop to 45 MPH, if the vehicle had a six speed
manual tranny?
Re: My Experience Driving a Chevrolet Traverse
On 9/12/10 1:17 PM, Mike wrote:
The most fuel efficient way to accelerate is almost always slowly. That
is usually true with CVTs, including the ones that Ford uses. There is
nothing special about CVTs that make stumping on the gas the most fuel
efficient way to drive the cars.
Jeff
Re: My Experience Driving a Chevrolet Traverse
this is correct, the slight efficiency gained with max torque throttle
(not wot) is not offset by the time difference between a slower accel
less torque intensive smaller throttle opening. A engineer should know
this!!!!!!!!!! there have been many actual tests done to prove this over
and over. (a "very" small eng could be the exception) KB
Re: My Experience Driving a Chevrolet Traverse
As an automotive engineer, you undoubtedly know that when you apply WOT, the
PCM drops into open loop using preprogrammed fuel look up tables (AKA rich
mixtures comparatively speaking). The PCM disregards O2 sensor input during
this time.
Additionally, during wide open throttle events the EGR valve will open. This
mixture dilution affects the efficiency of the engine, reducing fuel mileage
even further.
Often, after a WOT event, the PCM will once again revert to open loop
operation to help reduce catalyst temp.
In all of my years, I have never seen WOT offer any fuel savings... ever.
Your "experience" outranks nothing on usenet.
Re: My Experience Driving a Chevrolet Traverse
Seem like more bad advice.
With electronic throttle control, the Powertrain Controller actaully handles
the throttle opening for you. In the case of my Mom's Freestyle (and the
CVT equipped Saturn Vue I owned a few years back), you pressed on the
accelerator pedal to achieve a desired rate of acceleration. The engine
speed was not directly realted to the throttle position. Following your bad
advice would only be appropriate if you were going for the maximum rate of
acceleration (like if you were in a drag race). For day to day driving only
an idiot would floor the accelerator everytime....
Ed
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