On mpg complaints

Make sure your odometer is calibrated for true distance. If you go by indicated distance you are in for significant error.
Your fuel fill also has to be calibrated. Start with a topped off tank.
After your run, retop with calibrated fuel fill. Gas station pumps are not accurate enough.
Engine tune, tire pressure, tires & wheels, axle ratio, road grade, road surface, altitude, temperature, cargo load, engine tune, clogged air filter, etc. are going to have an effect on mileage. There are so many variables it is irrelevant to compare your car with others except in general terms.
It should be noted that even at $3.00 an hour, fuel is a minority percentage of vehicle operating costs. Most young people pay much more for insurance and depreciation. Add in maintenance and taxes, the fuel cost DIFFERENCE among models becomes fairly trivial
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for
$3.00 per hour??
On the road, you can often average between 60 and 70 miles in one hour.
If you get 15 mpg, then that is 4 to 4.7 gallons US per hour, and as we approach $3.00 per gallon, that comes up to $12-14 per hour.
If you average 35 miles per gallon, which is toward the high end admittedly, then the fuel consumption approaches 1.7 to 2 gallons per hour, or about $5 to 6 dollars per hour.
In the future, expenses for fuel, maintenance, insurance, etc may be anything but trivial. For those of you who make fantastic salaries,and can gladly pee away many hundreds of dollars per month on your ride, enjoy!
I can't .
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So easy to do. Just watch the markers on the side of the road. See if distances agree with the odometer.

Actually, they are. The pumps are checked by the state.
And, error is greatly reduced by taking the gallons used over several fillups and dividing by the total distance traveled.

Not too many people change their wheels, axle ratio, engine tune (I like classic rock and classical) or altitude that much. In a local community, these tend to be pretty constant.

If someone travels 15,000 and gets 25 mpg, that is 600 gal or $1800. Maybe you have a spare $1800 a year is trivial to you, but not to me. Further, the fuel cost difference between a Ford Fusion (about 28 mpg mixed highway/city) and a Ford Explorer (18 mpg mixed) is about $900. That's still pretty significant to me (if you disagree, you can email me for my address and send me a check for $900 a year). If you invest that $900 a month, it will turn into $75,000 at the end of 30 years. I will take it if you don't want it.
I think it costs an average of about $7000-10000 a year to own and operate a car. While saving $900 is only about 9% to 15% of the annual cost of a car, it is still a significant amount.
Jeff
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Assuming the odometer is off significantly. The mile markers on the interstate can help get within a good estimation, and translated to the odometer so can be corrected within reason. Not difficult.

You're right, although the state's facility for handling such flow to gas tank calibration will disagree with you.
Or you can fill a five gallon transportable gas can, then dump it in the vehicle.
Those filling a one gallon can/container find disparity between pumps at different locales and the same location at different pumps. Another way of maximizing profit intermittently at some locales. No, I'm not twisting the truth. Ask a politician, lawyer, or real estate agent for that.
Get most of the gas by filling right after sunrise. Gasoline is bound by heat for expansion. The tank in the ground that holds the gasoline at a service station will tend to hold a constant temperature. But, its not perfect. Avoid filling the tank in the evening.

Okay, let's compare a 88 VW Fox wagon with a 88 Chevrolet Surburban. Any mileage, altitude, maintenance state, mfr available axle ratio, 500 lb. load, 2 200 lb passengers, full tank of gas, ambient temperature of 80F, air humidity of 50%, tire pressure 30 psi all tires. All equal conditions. All encountering same hills, level areas etc. Waiting, tap, tap, tap, tap.

Depends how much you drive 10 miles or 300 miles per day to and from your destination. Not only is your assessment untrue, but a higher mpg vehicle is bound to come cheaper on the costs other than gasoline you quoted. Such as the vehicle I quoted.
--
Jonny



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Is there a reason that you are wondering why an apple doesn't look like an orange??? Waiting, tap, tap, tap
Gasoline held in bulk storage will not show much in temperature variations... this holds true whether storage is above ground or below ground. The pump themselves are temperature corrected to a specific value..... I think you are remembering a tale that Grandad used to tell back when gas station operators would pump fuel up into the measuring chamber and allow the heat of the sun to expand it before dispensing it....
Relative cost per mile can be a touchy subject.... I could have a vehicle that offers very good cost per mile numbers that may sip gas but have a high maintenance component... conversely, it could have a low failure/service requirement and use more gas.... either way, I probably wouldn't drive it.... I would imagine that *most* of us drive the vehicle of our choice... If low fuel consumption was one of the high priorities, so be it. In the grand scheme of things, few consider fuel mileage as a priority until after the "gloss" wears off.... It is then, and only then, that people come to realize that that 4X4, SUV or that V8 powered whoopy-car was purchased using the little head rather than the big head.....I will continue to drive those things that suit my lifestyle and the price at the pump island is one of those costs...
If fuel costs were really the big deal that many try to make them seem, lifestyles would be rearranged and bus passes would be purchased (and before you take me to task about remote areas, you need to realize that northern Alberta IS remote areas...).

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before
That's an understatement that most US folks wont appreciate unless they live in Alaska.
Richard
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You said it. The ground is nearly constant in temperature. There is not much difference in temperature, so the the effort of filling up in the morning is not worth it, because there is little to gain.
Jeff
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Here in Vancouver the evening is usually the best fill up time. Reason- there are little price drops in the evening.
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wrote:

Same here (Ottawa Ontario). Price this morning was $1.05 per liter, price at 11:00pm was $0.91. In Ottawa right now the price follows the same pattern daily; Price rise at 11:30pm roughly, remains stable overnight, drops 10-15 cents throughout the day, and then re-rises at 11:30pm.
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Thanks for emphasizing my point with $ cost. The surface ground temperature is coldest just at sunrise, warms throughout the day. So is the pump, its internals, the hose etc. Gradually cools after sunset. This affects the volume of gasoline pumped. A gallon of gasoline is a volume, not a weight. Despite naysayers both of the state that supervises the gasoline pump calibration, and all that don't understand it. The state may call it a bureau of weights and standards. Hello, anybody reading here?
So, with the price of gasoline the same price, sunrise or sunset, in reference to the Canadian standard of raising the price of gasoline in the early morning and dropping that price at noon, when is the best time to fill the tank in the USA?????????
Get off your butt, and fill the tank in the AM before getting to work.
--
Jonny
"T." < snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com> wrote in message
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Your theory is just that, theory. Do you have any real fiburs to back up what yousay? Have you done tests? Taken measurments?
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Your theory is just that, theory. Do you have any real figures to back up what you say? Have you done tests? Taken measurements? What will my savings be on a day with a 20 or 30 degree temperature swing? What is the temperature swing of the gas in the ground? How long does it take for the gas in the hose to expand enough to make a difference? This part is already past the measuring device anyway. Using your theory, you'd also get a better buy by following a driver that just filled up with premium as that is what is in the hose.
Put this into hard numbers from real like measurements and I'll take you seriously.
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Your thinking is in the fuel pump technology past. The gasoline pumps are no longer that stupid.
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wrote:

You buy the same amount of gasoline in the morning as in the afternoon. It just comes in a smaller package in the morning. The pumps are calibrated to deliver "standard gallons" or "standard liters", which will WEIGH the same amount regardless of temperature, but have a varying volume. When the "feds" come to check the calibration on the pump (at least years ago when I was pumping gas) they pumped a given quantity, then measured the temperature and applied a correction factor to the graduations on their test can. Winter or summer, the pumps did not vary more than a percent or two.
Now, for testing fuel mileage, the most accurate method is to take 4 5 gallon cans of fuel and an almost empty tank. Drive 'till it stops, and add 3 cans. Then drive till it stops again, and note the total accumulated mileage. Add the 4th can and drive to the nearest gas pump. Do it again, and average the results.
On carbureted engines I used to have a graduated 1 gallon container with a fuel line on it. I'd connect it to the fuel pump, and fill it up. Run the engine to make sure all the air was out, and the fuel level was down to the "full" mark, then drive untill the fuel level was down to the -1 gallon mark - write down mileage. Refill, turn the car around, and head back, repeating the test in the opposite direction. Average the two.
With EFI and return fuel systems, this gets a bit more complicated.

***
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clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:

That's a good way to waste gas trying to start it again. <:) I measure my mileage by recording all fuel and mileage. Then I calculate city and highway driving separately and combine them for an overall figure. Nothing unreal, just my real life driving. For an accurate test to compare with the EPA I measure highway mileage over a longer trip of at least two tank fullls. Since my speed is higher than the EPA cycle I expect a difference.
The results can be very surprising, like my 3.3L Concord gets similar overall mileage to my previous 60's & 70's VM Beatles, '70 Datsun 510 and better mileage than my 63 6 Cyl Chev II- all the previous were stick shifts. Another difference I see when renting cars for a few weeks is Chrysler cars are near or slightly below the EPA highway figure, Ford's are always 10+% lower than the EPA. GM cars get the best mileage, but recently below the EPA figure with cars like the 3.4L (2005) Impalla which has too high a high gear and third gear too much lower than high. It badly needs a 5 sp transmission. Of course my real life tests are very related to my driving style and road conditions.
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