OT?: New cars run on partial cylinders?

Page 2 of 3  


near the expected life expectancy rated on the sidewall. ;-)
Having said that, Better in a Car with 345 HP than in a SUV with 345HP
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Not if one has a wife and five children. LOL
mike hunt
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 16:24:38 -0500, "Mike Hunter"

dad was in the car and the Wife and children were in a SUV parked in the driveway everyone would be happy . Esp DAD <personal bias slipping in here> ;-)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I thought I was the only one in that category.
CJB
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The cam lobes are disabled (at least in the Honda VTEC), so the valves are closed. I assume some pressure leaks past the rings in the first few (hundred) strokes, and you wind up with a nominal charge that doesn't add or consume much energy during the piston cycle.
--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@XReXXOTXXX.usenet.us.com wrote:

BINGO!
1 atmosphere at some point mid-stroke. I'll bet it hapens in the first few strokes, though, not hundreds.
Rob
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 14:34:50 -0500, trainfan1

Take a good, solid 4-stroke, properly maintained, no material ring wear, all cylinders firing. At the end of a compression stroke, combustion occurs. At the point of combustion, there is 2, 3, 4 or more times the pressure that would exist in a deactivated cylinder with valves closed.
And there is either no blowby or only trivial blowby from the firing cylinder. Right?
So why would much lower pressures slip past the rings in a deactivated cylinder?
Peetie
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I've seen a car on a hill held only by a manual transmission "in gear", move slowly, lurching as the cylinders lose pressure, and then come up on compression in another cylinder. First gear isn't so bad, but try fourth.

Where is the increased pressure coming from in the firing cylinders? Rapidly expanding gas, that seats rings against the cylinder walls. There is no expanding gas in the deactivated cylinders. There is no new amount of air being replenished during an intake stroke. There is a static amount of air, which either bleeds off or remains static, like the air in a bouncing basketball.
Honda claims a 35% reduction in pumping losses by disabling the valve train.
--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 18:08:27 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@XReXXOTXXX.usenet.us.com wrote:

Turns the motor over at something like 1/4 to 5 rpm?
I suspect the dynamics of air seepage are totally different at 1k + rpm, when the oil pump is active and the crankshaft is splashing oil under the pistons, etc, etc.

It was my impression that the rapidly expanding gas forces the pistons and rings in the precise trajectory defined by the cylinder, that is, towards the crankshaft.
Absent combustion, the rings hug a thin layer of oil separating them from the cylinder walls. With combustion, what would make the rings further and materially expand? I've always assumed the rings were fully seated when properly installed and lubricated.

Hmmmmmm. Entirely aside from the credibility of any auto maker's claims, did they happen to quote what pumping losses amounted to either before or after disabling the valve train?
Best Regards, Peetie
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I'm sorry, I always find it difficult to argue with conspiracy theorists. It could very well be that Honda, Ford, GM, Chrysler and others prefer to burden themselves with additional valve components just because it looks good on a sales glossy.
--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 01:00:02 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@XReXXOTXXX.usenet.us.com wrote:

Conspiracy? I've seen nothing in this thread to suggest conspiracy. Aversion to Hype, perhaps. But not conspiracy.
The astute reader will note that several questions from the previous post went unanswered ...
There exists a Theory of Consumer Behavior which, when applied to big-ticket purchases (i.e. car, house), goes something like:
1.) Consumer tortures over necessity of spending all that money.
2.) Consumer admits necessity and focuses on 1 product.
3.) Consumer collects/tortures-over any/all available info re product (good info, bad info, "grey" info, etc).
4.) Consumer purchases product.
5.) Consumer thinks "Oh, My Gawd! Is it really worth all this money/effort??"
6.) Consumer tests product extensively (short-term).
7.) If testing goes well, consumer concludes that everything is fine, product works as good or better than expected. This usually occurs in the first 50% (or less) of the product's expected life.
In Stage 7.), some consumers become adamant about the product's worth. Some infuse themselves with a kind of religious fervor, and communicate this to others. Given a belief in the validity of religious fervor, their position may or may-not be justified over the life of the product. Of course, if one puts no stock in religious fervor ...
Best Regards, Peetie
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Doubt they would-such data is generally not for public consumption. That's why auto companies do competitive product testing.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@XReXXOTXXX.usenet.us.com wrote:

That sounds about right...
Rob
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
You asked... here ya go..... All Ford V8 gasoline engines in current production have aluminum heads.... rear wheel drive, and very, very substantial.... All Ford V8s in current production feature computer strategy that will disable the injector(s) on affected cylinders during a coil primary circuit failure event. So.... you can see the only thing left is iron blocks... Not one, but TWO of your requirements fullfilled. Further.... on those engines equipped with cylinder head temperature sense.... If the motor overheats, the ignition and fuel on a pattern of cylinders will be disabled in order to use ambient air to help cool the motor.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:15:41 GMT, "Jim Warman"

As I feared ...

Doesn't/didn't Lincoln, maybe others, mount a Ford V8 transverse for FWD?

Might be a good thing if it really worked properly (unlike the Idiot, Idiot Inertia Switch in my '94 Boid). Imagine passing an 18-wheeler in tight hiway traffic when it malfunctioned ...

Where? Where?? :-)

Ambient air? Thisun flew right by po' me. I s'pose they're throwing the warped-aluminum-heads issue a token fish ...
True or False: "Somebody (maybe even Ford) *could* design/build a traditional motor/drive-train (iron block/heads, etc) without idiot-proof features/circuitry of any kind, which would cost less and provide much improved reliability over what we currently see in the auto market."
Salut, Puddin'
--
******************************************************
*** Puddin' Man PuddingDotMan at GmailDotCom ***
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

True, and very easily. It wouldn't meet CAFE or EPA requirements but it could easily be done.
So yes they could build one, but no you could not buy one.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That assumes that "idiot-proof features/circuitry of any kind" includes CAFE or EPA requirements.
I'm not certain that CAFE/EPA requirements fall into that category.
If some do, I suppose I'd amend the question as follows:
True or False: "Somebody (maybe even Ford) *could* design/build a traditional motor/drive-train (iron block/heads, etc) without idiot- proof features/circuitry not required by CAFE/EPA , which would cost less and provide much improved reliability over what we currently see in the auto market." I seriously, seriously doubt that CAFE/EPA directly requires cyl deactivation or forbids iron motor components.
Prost, Puddin'
--
******************************************************
*** Puddin' Man PuddingDotMan at GmailDotCom ***
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Why wouldn't it pass? I personally know of a 1984 CV, 302/auto, that had no belt driving the AIR pump, the EGR was rusted shut & vac hose plugged, and both cats were hollow. The car passed many years of pollution tests for HC, CO, and Nox in that state, with less than 33% of the allowable emissions. How is that possible? Especially if these controls are so vital to having the 'clean air' that we all want.
Wasn't the difference in molecular structure,characteristics or weight between ground level ozone and the ozone that is being depleted ???????
-- ERIC GIRONDA
or False:<BR>&gt;"Somebody (maybe even Ford) *could* design/build a traditional<BR>&gt; motor/drive-train (iron block/heads, etc) without idiot-proof<BR>&gt; features/circuitry of any kind, which would cost less and <BR>&gt; provide much improved reliability over what we currently see <BR>&gt; in the auto market."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Salut,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Puddin'<BR><BR>True, and very easily.&nbsp; It wouldn't meet CAFE or EPA requirements but<BR>it could easily be done.&nbsp; <BR><BR>So yes they could build one, but no you could not buy one.</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

belt driving the AIR pump, the EGR was rusted shut & vac hose plugged, and both cats were hollow. The car passed many years of pollution tests for HC, CO, and Nox in that state, with less than 33% of the allowable emissions. How is that possible? Especially if these controls are so vital to having the 'clean air' that we all want.

It's possible that the shop testing the vehicle had a different vehicle on the rollers and "inadvertently" entered the 84 CV's details into the computer. I've heard of that happening.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 16:57:26 -0500, trainfan1

I have seen exactly two of these early Cadillacs in operation. The first one was owned by an elderly gentleman who always drove the car in the typical elderly driver fashion for nearly 15 years. The computer would adapt to driving style and.... Every few months he would come back because the car was acting "sluggish". We'd clear the memory, Take it for a rip up the road at full throttle and (as he would say) it got it's pep back. ;-) cheap & easy "fix"
The idea was way ahead of the technology. Properly maintained even the early 4-6-8 Caddy's would operate as designed.. It shouldn't be too problematic now with better oils and electronics.
The other 4-6-8 Cadillac? It came in for a tune-up. Opened the hood and saw a rats nest of red wire where someone had "fixed" it..... Never even attempted to touch that one.
Don't worry about this being "cutting edge" technology. ABS started life in the 1950's, Airbags were in GM cars in the 1970's the 1930's Deusenbergs had Superchargers and multi valve engines. 1960's Corvair's had rear mounted air cooled turbo engines (yes, just like the 1980's Porsches). Fuel cells? 1800's (look up William Grove or something like that).
America has made a practice of being ahead of the world. This is what made America great and continues to make America great. It's just a shame we can't find a solution for the retiree's so Ford, & GM can start spending engineering dollars again.
If you're concerned about reliability buy a new one after they've been out a few years, that way you'll have a warranty and the problems the vehicles encounter will already be solved by the early adopters. <grin>.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.