Out of state ticket!

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Subject: Out-of-State Speeding Ticket Date: Thursday, February 10, 2005 11:18 AM
This week I had to make a rush trip to Virginia to visit a dear Uncle who
had a heart attack. Had to speed up to pass a slow moving truck and just as I got around him, coming the other way was a State Trooper.. at the time I was doing 65 MPH,, sadly I found out I was in a 55MPH area. The trooper ticketed me and did not want to hear any excuses. Now I have the option of sending the fine or going back to Virginia and trying to plead my case. I do need all advice, good and bad.. first ticket in over 15 years. big concern is the possibility of increased insurance premiums. What happens if I just ignore the ticket, does the traffic court automatically judge me guilty,, etc. Any and all advice appreciated. thanks. RG
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No brainer, pay the fine and move on. Ignore it, it will bite you big. You will be most likely judged guilty and have a warrant out for your arrest. You can not win in court, it's stacked against you. The cop will have a detailed report showing what method you were clocked. He will show the court that the equipment has been certified all with in the required interval. The cop will most likely show that there are sufficient speed limit signs. The judge will weigh what ever the cops says very heavily, may even say so in opening statements in court. Too the court the cop has credibility, you do not.

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"pick one" <try again!> wrote in message

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If you lived in Canada, they would automatically issue a bench warrant for your arrest.... I think it has to do with some piffling little thing called "acting like an adult and accepting the responsibility of your actions".
The last time I got a speeding ticket, I was speeding... I admitted I was speeding..... if I didn't do that, I would be a liar..... if I lied about speeding, it would be easy for me to lie about other things..... and it would become difficult for people to figure out if I was lying or not.
Sorry... I got sidetracked...... I'm not picking on you in particular. Your post was there when I hit "reply". There are some responses (including yours) that suggest shirking responsibility is ... well, irresposnsible. I served many years on our local FD (and still instruct there). I've scraped many people off the pavement that thought they were "speeding safely". Given the latest trend of blaming our own shortcomings on outside influences I can only wonder where the learning curve went....

who
just
time
trooper
option
big
happens
me
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Well said, Jim. Very well said indeed....
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 05:33:22 GMT, "Jim Warman"

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Yeah, but paying the fine and pleading guilty and increased insurance costs won't make you a better driver. Taking the appropriate courses and practicing the appropriate driving habits will.
In fact, taking responsibility for this won't help anything, except the local budget in that jurisdiction in VA. Unless you kill or injure someone or crash into another car, this is a victimless crime. (I am not talking about speeding in general, just the fact that you got caught.)
I am not saying you should not take responsibility for your actions. You broke the law and got caught. But, except for the reprocusions of not taking responsibility (like having a warrant for your arrest), I don't see how it matters.
And fixing tickets is a way of life: http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/10850704.htm?1c
Besides. studies show that speeding doesn't kill. Differences in speed and poor driving do. The average speed on highways in uncongested areas is higher than the speed limit, while the death rate per million miles driven goes down year after year.
Jeff
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Not wanting to get drawn into a discussion on morals (but heading there anyway)..... Simply because people are doing something doesn't make that thing right. Fixing tickets, bribing building and meat inspectors, stealing figuring pads from work - people do this stuff but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
As for speeding or other erratic behaviour being a victimless crime.... At milepost 40, it might be a fine... at milepost 42 it could be a headline.... "2 dead, 2 airlifted to hospital". Accidents happen and speeding is one of the major factors (notice I didn't say "cause" - accidents are usually caused by a group or chain of errors and/or omissions). Even if all the traffic is speeding at the same rate, we cover much more ground during our reaction time because of that.
You are correct saying that paying the fine and admitting guilt wont make us better drivers but the hit to the pocketbook and self-esteem should serve as a wake up call.

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From this patrolman's experience, SPEED KILLS.
The biggest difference is that fast speed generally kills younger drivers and slow speed generally kills older drivers. Young drivers are more apt to go fast because they lack the fear factor which life's experience imparts. Older drivers tend to be far more cautious; even too cautious. They generally drive slower thus impeding the smooth flow of traffic. One of their worst is getting on or off the freeway. Unfortunately, in both cases, they quite often take innocent others with them.
Of course, it's not all speed. It's reaction times, too. The nature of that should be obvious.
It's also vehicle maintenance. Older drivers, especially on fixed incomes, have less available to spend on upkeep. Conversely, the younger drivers who are employed have the income to maintain good tires and the rest.
But, fast or slow, I'm one of the ones who spent a career picking up the broken pieces of the guilty as well as the innocents.
As for paying or not paying.... it's not my conscience. I guess I was raised in a different time; a time when personal responsibility and self respect were important issues. No, I don't like handing out my hard earned income for something I didn't want, but I would consider it my debt to society for what I did wrong, and the price I pay for the privilege of driving.... for driving is not a right, it is a privilege granted by the state. Those who advocate not paying cause me to question the basic morals of the society in which they live. It may seem trivial, but if they would skip out on a traffic ticket, what else would they be willing to do?
Not everyone shares my views. That's life.
wrote:

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Amen, Spike!!
I'm semi-retired from our local fire department (kind of a misnomer since the vast majority of our calls are for MVAs, these days). I still teach, amongst other things, vehicle extrication. We usually have a shortage of trained rescue techs since most of these calls require a very strong stomach.
Funny... not one person expects to have an accident..... those that haven't had the "pleasure" of experiencing a severe impact always think that accidents only happen to "the other guy". It is seldom realized that to "the other guy", "not me" IS "the other guy"...
Stay safe...
Jim Warman snipped-for-privacy@telusplanet.net
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Too many years and too many wasted lives.... Defensive Driving is the only way to go. Expect it will happen to you and plan for what you will do when it does.
There are only two kinds of MC riders... those who have crashed, and those who will crash. The same holds true for cars.
Stupidity crosses all barriers.
As for strong stomach... I almost always puked.... either immediately, or after it was all taken care of. As a very good friend on the CHP told me, good patrolmen get sick. When the day arrives that you feel nothing, especially when children are involved, it's time for a job change.
Keep the greasy side down and the shiny painted side up.....
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 01:52:39 GMT, "Jim Warman"

Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
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--------------040307040304070004010508 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

That Just what James Dean said in his last PSA. "The life you save may be your own, or mine..." Even the best drivers, can have a bad day. :-\
--------------040307040304070004010508 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body> <blockquote type="cite" cite=" snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com"> <pre wrap="">
</pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">
Funny... not one person expects to have an accident..... those that haven't had the "pleasure" of experiencing a severe impact always think that accidents only happen to "the other guy". It is seldom realized that to "the other guy", "not me" IS "the other guy"...
Stay safe...
Jim Warman <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto: snipped-for-privacy@telusplanet.net"> snipped-for-privacy@telusplanet.net</a>
</pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----> </pre> </blockquote> That Just what James Dean said in his last PSA. "The life you save may be your own, or mine..."<br> Even the best drivers, can have a bad day.<span class="moz-smiley-s7"><span> :-\ </span></span><br> <br> </body> </html>
--------------040307040304070004010508--
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Gad... you had to include that bit about scooters.... at my age, one of my few remaining pleasures is my Sportster.
I am blessed with a cast iron stomach and was regularly called upon to take care of those things nobody else could bring themselves to do... unfortunately, my version of "black humor" was too raunchy for even the most jaded responders.
I survived... still married to the same wonderful woman for over 31 years and I try desparately to prepare my students for whatever they may encounter. So many people talk about their "freedoms" and how speed limits and seatbelt legislation infringe on them. No one ever thinks about my rights when I scrape some carcase off the road after some needless incident. I will admit to treating some peoples remains with something less than respect... children in particular and innocents in general deserve better than what they get after meeting "the other guy".
The province of Alberta has embarked upon graduated licensing..... While this may save many young lives, it wont create better drivers. Coming full circle, I firmly believe that realising that we must accept full responsibility for our actions should be all the motivation needed.
I did forget to mention that the RCMP now insist on having Vehicle A inspected in all injury/fatality MVAs. At first, it was very hard as I was still active on the fire department.... showing up for work and being greeted by the very vehicle I had attended the previous evening. Recusing myself from active duty has helped lessen the impact. I've seen a lot of junk on our roads but I have yet to call any Vehicle A as unroadworthy..
We live in a world that has been about studied to death... I'm sure that, if we look hard enough, we can find a study that says crapping on the dining room table during Thanksgiving dinner is socially acceptable (it wasn't all that long ago that our government funded a study on the effect of cow farts on the ozone layer). If we are bent on our subject. we can find some kind of fault in moderation, seat belt usage, daytime running lights, air bags, toilet training and common sense.
Tell the guys down at the station that there are those of us that appreciate their efforts.

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Spike wrote:

Sure, but how much, and where, and when?
Let's think about how speed limits are set. A geographical area, or a body with jurisdiction over a particular type of road, declares "The speed limit here shall be X", based on some arbitrary criteria such as an energy crisis, somebody's personal beliefs, or a hallucination. Roads are engineered with appropriate camber and turn radii so that a vehicle in reasonably safe operating condition, with acceptable tires, under normal conditions (which doesn't mean ideal conditions) can safely traverse those roads at the official speed limit, with some margin.
In ideal conditions (excellent visibility, straight or gently curving stretches, daytime, no adverse weather, good road surface, new tires, etc), it is perfectly safe to traverse those same roads at considerably higher speeds. Under those conditions, collecting speeding tickets is purely a revenue exercise.
In Ohio (and probably other states) they have a traffic reg where you can be cited for traveling at a speed "incompatible with the weather or conditions" regardless of the speed limit. My personal view is that this sort of rule should be the only speed limit, but I realize it's impossible to quantify. If I were Emperor, I would change the law so that:
a) If you're traveling at or below the posted speed limit, you can't be cited for a speeding violation. However if conditions are bad then you can be cited for reckless driving.
b) If conditions are ideal you can choose to exceed the limit, but if a cop thinks you're driving incompatibly with ambient conditions he can cite you for reckless driving.
In other words, make the speed limit what it really is - a recommendation. Citing people for driving at 60.5mph in a 55 zone is like citing people for not slicing up their dietary intake according to the food pyramid.
I'm specifically talking about limited-access roads (highways) here. Obviously a suburban street has other factors affecting what speed is "safe".
It's not a moral issue.
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It's not the cops who make the roads safer. The cops just have to enforce the existing laws and clean up after the fact. It's the engineers who make roads safer. And if our roads were engineered the way the Germans have engineered the Autobahn, we'd be Able;e to fly without tower clearance.... : )
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Also, don't forget the auto engineers who make cars safer with better suspensions, electronics that help keep cars and trucks under control, and make them more reliable, so they don't break down as much.
And don't forget the auto techs and owners who replace tires, keep them inflated and keep cars in good shape.
Police also play an important role. Their efforts to reduce drunk driving have been largely successful, saving thousands of lives per year. They play an important role in educating people (although I don't quite agree with Jim Warman's message about speed,he is an example), like high school students and older people in proper operation of vehicles. And police also enforce other laws, like making sure trucks going on our highways meet the minimum safety requirements and stopping those who don't, like at weigh stations.
Jeff

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On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 05:33:22 GMT, "Jim Warman"

I must agree Jim.. I was taught that without your integrity you are nothing. Too many people today could care less... Those who think nothing is "wrong" unless witnessed by police. I have relatives and co-workers who have to screen their calls (not from telemarketing) If they're sold anything on credit, they consider it the seller's problem.. if they don't pay.. It's their fault for trusting them! I recently had $2400 US worth of tree removal done in my yard. I paid by credit card. After the next billing cycle I did not find the item on my statement. I contacted the tree service and had them to look into it. They found the problem, (the credit card company dropped the ball.. and they wouldn't have gotten paid, nor I billed) Friends or co-workers would have a big laugh from me doing this... being a "sucker" for paying what I owe... I don't allow being ripped off.... and I don't rip off others.. My word CAN be banked on. I do not have to hide from no one! (unless I'm doing 5 over the limit on the interstate..:-) but if I'm caught,,, I'll admit it.. Chuck

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A kindred spirit... I wonder how many people count their change at the till and return any overage. My youth could be termed "extremely colourful"... after I got married and learned to accept what life has given me, I realized what was needed.
I frequent several newsgroups and many forums. One common denominator is the reluctance of many people to admit that they have master minded their own problem and defelct the blame onto some outside agency... no matter how lame the excuse may sound.
In this day and age, maintaining my honesty and integrity are high on the list. And it makes life so much easier...

Uncle
case.
judge
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Generally speaking, I don't find fault with the statement about picking your speed, except, your choice may not be what the law enforcement officer deems appropriate for the conditions. You may get cited anyway.
As for writing to the judge and explaining the circumstances, I earlier suggested that, and I have seen it work on rare occasions. But don't go off if you still are found guilty.
As for your honesty regarding the return of funds, I would commend you but that should not be necessary when someone has done what is right.
Nothing wrong with the cops showing that their equipment is properly certified AND operated in accordance with departmental regulations. As a cop, I never had a problem with such requests. That does not mean I have to interrupt my duties. There are procedures in every jurisdiction I have even encountered for filing a complaint or for obtaining such information. The public has always, in my book, been welcome to avail themselves of those procedures.
I may not have an argument with you in such an instance. However, your posts here seem to present a 'holier than thou' attitude where, when it comes to driving, nothing you do is wrong. It's the "other guy" at fault, whether another driver or a patrolman. That government has no right to impede you personal agenda. This may not be how you feel, but it is the impression I get, and I do not think I am alone in this.
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