Too many years and too many wasted lives.... Defensive Driving is the only way to go. Expect it will happen to you and plan for what you will do when it does.
There are only two kinds of MC riders... those who have crashed, and those who will crash. The same holds true for cars.
Stupidity crosses all barriers.
As for strong stomach... I almost always puked.... either immediately, or after it was all taken care of. As a very good friend on the CHP told me, good patrolmen get sick. When the day arrives that you feel nothing, especially when children are involved, it's time for a job change.
Keep the greasy side down and the sh>Amen, Spike!!
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1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Gad... you had to include that bit about scooters.... at my age, one of my few remaining pleasures is my Sportster.
I am blessed with a cast iron stomach and was regularly called upon to take care of those things nobody else could bring themselves to do... unfortunately, my version of "black humor" was too raunchy for even the most jaded responders.
I survived... still married to the same wonderful woman for over 31 years and I try desparately to prepare my students for whatever they may encounter. So many people talk about their "freedoms" and how speed limits and seatbelt legislation infringe on them. No one ever thinks about my rights when I scrape some carcase off the road after some needless incident. I will admit to treating some peoples remains with something less than respect... children in particular and innocents in general deserve better than what they get after meeting "the other guy".
The province of Alberta has embarked upon graduated licensing..... While this may save many young lives, it wont create better drivers. Coming full circle, I firmly believe that realising that we must accept full responsibility for our actions should be all the motivation needed.
I did forget to mention that the RCMP now insist on having Vehicle A inspected in all injury/fatality MVAs. At first, it was very hard as I was still active on the fire department.... showing up for work and being greeted by the very vehicle I had attended the previous evening. Recusing myself from active duty has helped lessen the impact. I've seen a lot of junk on our roads but I have yet to call any Vehicle A as unroadworthy..
We live in a world that has been about studied to death... I'm sure that, if we look hard enough, we can find a study that says crapping on the dining room table during Thanksgiving dinner is socially acceptable (it wasn't all that long ago that our government funded a study on the effect of cow farts on the ozone layer). If we are bent on our subject. we can find some kind of fault in moderation, seat belt usage, daytime running lights, air bags, toilet training and common sense.
Tell the guys down at the station that there are those of us that appreciate their efforts.
I got a speeding ticket in Indiana about 8 years ago, (I live in CA) and I sent in a check for the fine and it was never cashed. I haven't been back to the state, but I do wonder what happened, or will, but only when I see exchanges such as this thread.
Don't be a fool, pay the ticket. Once a warrant is issued for you your life could take a drastic change. Suppose you were stopped again and that warrant was on file, lets say, 6 years later. Imagine how much it would cost you to bail out of jail, get a lawyer, fight the charge and then either do jail time, community service hours, a fine or some combination of all three? Apply for a home loan that requires a credit check. If that puppy turns up you're toast. Get a promotion that requires you to use company vehicles and be covered by company insurance. If that ticket and warrant turns up you will loose the promotion. This is a whole lot of risk for a couple of hundred bucks. Pay the damn thing and be done with it. You did the crime, now do the time.
I must agree Jim.. I was taught that without your integrity you are nothing. Too many people today could care less... Those who think nothing is "wrong" unless witnessed by police. I have relatives and co-workers who have to screen their calls (not from telemarketing) If they're sold anything on credit, they consider it the seller's problem.. if they don't pay.. It's their fault for trusting them! I recently had $2400 US worth of tree removal done in my yard. I paid by credit card. After the next billing cycle I did not find the item on my statement. I contacted the tree service and had them to look into it. They found the problem, (the credit card company dropped the ball.. and they wouldn't have gotten paid, nor I billed) Friends or co-workers would have a big laugh from me doing this... being a "sucker" for paying what I owe... I don't allow being ripped off.... and I don't rip off others.. My word CAN be banked on. I do not have to hide from no one! (unless I'm doing 5 over the limit on the interstate..:-) but if I'm caught,,, I'll admit it.. Chuck
Let's think about how speed limits are set. A geographical area, or a body with jurisdiction over a particular type of road, declares "The speed limit here shall be X", based on some arbitrary criteria such as an energy crisis, somebody's personal beliefs, or a hallucination. Roads are engineered with appropriate camber and turn radii so that a vehicle in reasonably safe operating condition, with acceptable tires, under normal conditions (which doesn't mean ideal conditions) can safely traverse those roads at the official speed limit, with some margin.
In ideal conditions (excellent visibility, straight or gently curving stretches, daytime, no adverse weather, good road surface, new tires, etc), it is perfectly safe to traverse those same roads at considerably higher speeds. Under those conditions, collecting speeding tickets is purely a revenue exercise.
In Ohio (and probably other states) they have a traffic reg where you can be cited for traveling at a speed "incompatible with the weather or conditions" regardless of the speed limit. My personal view is that this sort of rule should be the only speed limit, but I realize it's impossible to quantify. If I were Emperor, I would change the law so that:
a) If you're traveling at or below the posted speed limit, you can't be cited for a speeding violation. However if conditions are bad then you can be cited for reckless driving.
b) If conditions are ideal you can choose to exceed the limit, but if a cop thinks you're driving incompatibly with ambient conditions he can cite you for reckless driving.
In other words, make the speed limit what it really is - a recommendation. Citing people for driving at 60.5mph in a 55 zone is like citing people for not slicing up their dietary intake according to the food pyramid.
I'm specifically talking about limited-access roads (highways) here. Obviously a suburban street has other factors affecting what speed is "safe".
And they way you know that speed kills is what? Can you please cite some good studies that show this? I am not talking about the bung hole going 100 mph down a 55 mph highway. I am talking about showing that the guy going 65 mph on a 55 mph highway is more dangerous than the same guy going 55 mph. Your experience of removing dead bodies from wrecks is anecdote at best (just as is my experience in treating the dead in emergencies rooms and intensive care units).
For example, can you show that in countries and counties with high speed limits, there is a significant death rate difference?
I didn't know that these drivers who posses poor judgement were not innocent, either.
And very young drivers don't have the experience to know when a vibration needs to be fixed or the money to do it. THey don't have the knowledge or experience to know that those tires without threads that are good on dry pavement are not good in snow or water. And they don't have money to get new tires immediately, either. Or to rotate the tires as often as they should. Nor the funds to buy a safer car with side-curtain airbags or even front airbags.
How about those who use radar detection so that they can speed more?
BTW, I did not advocate skipping out on the speeding ticket.
All states in the US agree to suspend the drivers license of an individual who does not either appear in court or pay the fine. If you are later stopped while driving in any state suspended for "failure to appear" the fines are huge and you may even be jailed.
Pay the fine, move on.
Most states do not issue points for out of state tickets. Check with your local MVA.
A kindred spirit... I wonder how many people count their change at the till and return any overage. My youth could be termed "extremely colourful"... after I got married and learned to accept what life has given me, I realized what was needed.
I frequent several newsgroups and many forums. One common denominator is the reluctance of many people to admit that they have master minded their own problem and defelct the blame onto some outside agency... no matter how lame the excuse may sound.
In this day and age, maintaining my honesty and integrity are high on the list. And it makes life so much easier...
Whatever the reason, no matter where the people who post in this thread are from, by and large it makes me feel a lot better about the state of society when I see that there are more people with integrity, self respect, moral values, etc, than those without.
The headlines are filled with crooks; from the government, from corporations, from religion, and more; who have evidenced that they do not possess such attributes. Those headlines give ordinary hard working contributors to society people the impression that society is crashing all around us.
Basing the condition of the social order on the posts here, the high levels of responsibility give rise to a hope that society is not filled with just the "me" people; people who could care less about the other guy.
To those with high standards, I say 'thank you', for you have made my career someth>
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When I drive, the speed I choose is determined by two factors: what I consider the fastest safe and the speed limit. The lower of these two determines the speed at which I drive.
I have already given money back at stores because they have given me too much change (they thought I gave them a twenty when it was a five).
I don't see the problem with going to the judge (or writing to the judge) and explaining the circumstances. I also would ask the cop to prove that his equipment was properly certified, too. I don't see what is wrong with requesting a fair hearing. That is the American way.
We're more prone to remember the jerks... The nice people give us a warm fuzzy feeling,,, but we consider those to be one in a million. If I were to meet you on the street, I'd assume you're a bad guy ,, till I saw reason to believe otherwise.. I think it's a sign of the times. Today, I do believe, that kids are not guided, or being raised, but simply "kept alive till they turn 18"... Kids don't know who mom or dad are... I have a distant cousin who is 21 and just gave birth to third kid by
3 different guys... The oldest kid, who is 3 or 4, assumes grandmother is her mother.. These kids will be taught right from wrong... but still not by their parents.. I also think,, that since religion is now a bad thing,, that no morals are being taught.. Like I said in an earlier post, Kids (even "kids" in their 30's) believe that nothing is "wrong" unless a cop sees you do it,, or it's on a security tape.. Kids may be reprimanded for "getting caught" shoplifting... but not for the shoplifting itself.. Also may be a small town thing in my case.. I grew up in a town of
6000 people.. Everyone knew everyone. At age 14 I could have gotten anything I needed, anywhere in town on my on "word" or credit,, even if not legally binding. I cherish my good name, In a small town.. the person you do wrongly,, you will see in barber shop, hardware store, grocery store etc.. Maybe this "helped".. Chuck...
It's not the cops who make the roads safer. The cops just have to enforce the existing laws and clean up after the fact. It's the engineers who make roads safer. And if our roads were engineered the way the Germans have engineered the Autobahn, we'd be Able;e to fly without tower clearance.... : )
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1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Generally speaking, I don't find fault with the statement about picking your speed, except, your choice may not be what the law enforcement officer deems appropriate for the conditions. You may get cited anyway.
As for writing to the judge and explaining the circumstances, I earlier suggested that, and I have seen it work on rare occasions. But don't go off if you still are found guilty.
As for your honesty regarding the return of funds, I would commend you but that should not be necessary when someone has done what is right.
Nothing wrong with the cops showing that their equipment is properly certified AND operated in accordance with departmental regulations. As a cop, I never had a problem with such requests. That does not mean I have to interrupt my duties. There are procedures in every jurisdiction I have even encountered for filing a complaint or for obtaining such information. The public has always, in my book, been welcome to avail themselves of those procedures.
I may not have an argument with you >
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The problem on this continent is the belief that if one blindly obeys "the law" no harm can come to them or others. There are countless individuals in the Law & order dept (may FD individuals such as yourself believe they are included in this group). who don't understand the origin an reason for many given laws and blindly assume that they laws were put in place for safety.
Having handled many death and serious injury claims in the insurance field I have learned that speed is often a small sometimes insignificant factor. There are other far more critical factors resulting in death including impairment (Sleep, drugs & alcohol) lack of skill (huge factor) and poorly maintained vehicles (common mistake is old hard tires that look good & pass many state/provincial inspections.
If you are trying to tell us that someone doing the speed limit in a
10 year old rusty Hyundai with bad tires and misaimed headlights with no seat belt who's inexperienced and overtired traveling down the TransCanada highway is safer than someone skilled and rested traveling
101 KPH in a brand new Cadillac Deville down the very same stretch you're gravely mistaken.
Enough of my rant.
As for the Ticket? Pay the fine. The state's need to fund their gay art's initiatives.
Also, don't forget the auto engineers who make cars safer with better suspensions, electronics that help keep cars and trucks under control, and make them more reliable, so they don't break down as much.
And don't forget the auto techs and owners who replace tires, keep them inflated and keep cars in good shape.
Police also play an important role. Their efforts to reduce drunk driving have been largely successful, saving thousands of lives per year. They play an important role in educating people (although I don't quite agree with Jim Warman's message about speed,he is an example), like high school students and older people in proper operation of vehicles. And police also enforce other laws, like making sure trucks going on our highways meet the minimum safety requirements and stopping those who don't, like at weigh stations.
If the law requires that I go more slowly than I would like, I obey the law (or more accurately, go a few miles above the speed limit, but not so fast that the police can legally ticket me, at least in Pennsylvania).
The reality of the matter is that people make mistakes. In this case, the casheir put the bill in the wrong pile in the cash register. Mistakes happen.
No, I just disagree with the law. I still follow it (almost).
The other thing I disagree with is the attitude of other drivers. I see drivers using hand-held cell phones where they are illegal while driving, kids sitting in the front seats, and clearly unsafe driving. Once, on I80, a Christmas tree fell off the top of a van. Had the tree fell a little differently, that could have been the last tree I ever saw. I see pickup trucks with stuff in the back not properly secured.
Technology like air bags, seat belts, reactive suspension systems and improved tires has done wonders to make cars safer, yet people do stupid things, like change lanes unexpectedly, pull out in front of other drivers, tail gate, smoke and use their computers while driving, and go at excessive speeds in the snow.
Speeding, itself, isn't the problem. Stupidity is.
Speed is a contributing factor... the higher the speed, the more the danger.... Add speed into the usual distractions that drivers indulge in and I have to ask "is there any one mitigating or common factor?". That we have accidents at all is proof that most of us don't know how to drive...... I've been involved in a few and I know full and well what I could have done different or avoided doing....
Unlike many responding to this thread, I am not a victim of most of my unfortunate events... to some point, I have been an author..... A statement such as "I'm a safe speeder" or "speeding is a fact of life" or some variation on these themes is an admission of starting the process.
You folks can try and justify your agendas any which way you want and the fact will not be altered.... far too many people are dying on north american highways. If for no other reason than common sense and traffic laws were designed for other people. Throughout this entire thread, some respondents have been engaged in a battle of wits.... I have finally realize that we are fighting with unarmed people...
Blindly obeying the law is no assurance of avoiding an accident.... simply because so many others have abdicated any responsibilty for their actions. Something else always "made me do it". Grow up... get a life... deal with what life gives us.... we will survive if we allow ourselves to survive.
I offer no "excuses" for not driving intelligently..... however, many feel the need to offer excuses for the way they drive...
Nice that you can sit at a desk and offer up judgement, safe in the knowledge that you wont have to actually witness the carnage left in the aftermath of your statistics. People are not statistics until after you bean counters declare them statistics.... they are moms and dads and sisters and brothers... and they are dying at an alarming rate because of cavalier attitudes towards safety.... I have worked with your kinds of "forms"... the ones that keep me from expressing my true feelings and findings regarding an incident. The grand desire to assign one (and only one) attribute to an MVA.
I perform investigations for our RCMP detatchment in MVAs resulting in injury/death..... a task that occurs far too often. If I were to attach any particular cause, driver inattention would be the overbearing theme. Exceeding the posted (and/or logical) speed would be included in this class. Talking on the cell phome is bad... going too fast is bad... doing both is a recipe for disaster....
We can browbeat this for a long, long time but we can not alter the fact that doing something wrong is doing something wrong and no amount of embellishment will alter the fact.
Am I perfect? No.... Do I strive for perfection.... mostly. Do I f*ck up and try and blame it on some other factor? Why would I?
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