Re: Automakers Lengthen Oil Change Intervals

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When the 1964 Thunderbird came out one of the selling points was that it had a recommended oil change interval of 6000 miles. The 3000 mile oil change has been absurd for at least 40 years yet the marketers
have managed to keep it going.
I use Mobil One and change it once a year or 12,000 miles, whichever comes first.
On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:14:01 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

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Another $ynthetic $ucker.
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Steve Barker

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Yep, when working with over the road rigs. to watch for antifreeze in the oil and excessive bearing wear. not needed in the consumer market when changing oil at the proper interval of 3k.
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Our fleet people tried the "oil sample" route to determination when to start worrying and found that by the time you found a problem thru oil analysis it was too late for the typical vehicle. There may be some special cases where it makes sense, but not for the typical light fleet vehicle where you compare the cost of the $18 oil analysis versus just changing the oil for $20. Even on most heavy stuff you are running a big risk if your PM program depends on catching things thru an oil analysis.
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On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 15:10:52 -0500, "Steve Barker"

3K is simply absurd and a waste of time and resources. It's been proven over and over again in fleets that for virtually any light fleet usage the sweet spot is around 6000 miles with traditional oil. But you go ahead and ignore what people responsible for hundreds of vehicle worth millions of dollars have learned and keep on throwing your time and money away.
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wrote:

Depends what kind of use the fleeet gets. 6000 miles of moderate higheay driving over a 2 to 3 month period? I'l bite. 6000 miles of short trip intown driving over 4-6 months, Not on your life.
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On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 18:13:14 -0400, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:

Sorry but you are mistaken. The 6000 mile change works fine for either use with today's cars. Just as you are mired in the 60's with your 3000 mile oil change you also are mired in the 60's as far as cleanliness of engines. Back then with carbs and chokes and generally rich running engines short trips were terrible on cars. Lots of unburned fuel, water condensation and the like contaminating the oil. Today's vehicles just don't contaminate the oil like that anymore. The run CLEAN almost from the instant they are started and they stay that way usually for the life of the vehicle because the pollution control laws require them to run clean to past 100K or the manufacturer has to pay the repair costs. It's very rare for the emissions systems to malfunction anymore. Our fleet has 100s of vehicles, mostly domestic, and engine or transmission problems are pretty rare. Of the 100 or so vehicles I've been personally involved with in the past several years I can't recall any that had an engine or transmission problem with the exception of some Dodge trucks with a design defect causing them to go out at 30K. Most run to over 150K+ and then get auctioned. The last time I had a vehicle breakdown with any of our fleet domestics was back in the 80s. The fact is, statistically the domestics are exceptionally dependable and durable. Sadly, the media and clever advertising has convinced people the imports are somehow better even though I know many instances of people putting many thousands into their relatively low mileage imports to keep them on the road. Most people won't let facts get in the way of their opinions.
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wrote:

On the imports 150K is just broken in, when properly maintained. 450,000km on a Civic VX (that's 280,000 miles) the engine has never been apart, the tranny has never been apart, factory clutch, AC still works. All that has EVER been replaced is alternator brushes, one wheel bearing, and distributor(bearing went south). ANd my buddy thrashes the living daylites out of it. My 1981 Tecel had 450,000+ km on it when I sold it (had new clutch and timing belt, one axle joint, and alternator brushes replaced) and the guy I sold it to put another 200,000km on it in the next 2 years, with no mechanical repairs. Body finally fell off.
Usually when people end up spending big money on repairs on ANY vehicle it is due more to neglect than abuse, and more to abuse than poor quality. (just that a LOT of import owners maintain their vehicles better than most American car owners, from my past experience)
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On Mon, 02 Apr 2007 13:51:34 -0400, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:

I guess it's because you import owners just don't see much besides your own little world.... you starry eyed import lovers always post these stories of how some Toyota got a lot of miles as if getting a lot of miles is some rare event. The domestics just as often get that kind of high mileage. One guy I know has over 400K on his early 90's explorer, another has put around 200K on several domestics, and our fleet trucks, fords and chevies, regular run anywhere from 150K to 250K on original drivetrains. And if you look at the taxi and shuttle companies they have for years been running Fords and chevies and dodges to many hundreds of thousands of miles.
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All of this is hype. Maybe it wont, maybe it will. The average driver runs what, 12,000-15,000 miles a year. If you do your own oil changes its about $15 dollars a change using a good filter like the GM Delco, Wix, NAPA Gold, or a Motorcraft, and a really good Dino oil like Kendal GT, or Valvaline Racing. So your talking a lousy $30-$45 a year in savings. going to extended 6k oil changes.. $45 sure sounds like cheap insurance to me. If you hit the dealer, mine charges $22 for an oil change and includes a decent vehicle check including a brake check with the linings and rotors mic'd and the specs entered. I'm too damn old to crawl around on the ground to save $5-10 doing it myself. And I have spot checked the work, it's never been off, but then I have a good working relationship built over 25 years with the dealership, both as a private customer, and as a mechanic working for independent shops. And there in is the secret to any good business relationship, long term.
Whitelightning
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If you want insurance, use a full synthetic at 5000 - 6000 mile intervals. You will be providing much better engine protection than conventional oil changed at 3000 mile intervals.
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On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 01:05:56 GMT, "Whitelightning"

It's insurance that buys you nothing. Why not change it every 1000 miles or every 500? Wouldn't that be cheap insurance? There is ZERO value in changing it every 3000 miles, you certainly don't need your brakes or anything else inspected that often. If you think you do then present some FACTUAL BASIS for the selected interval, not just "it seems like the right mileage to me". Has someone done a study showing a statistically significant difference in the number of on the road failures between those vehicle "inspected" every 3000 miles compared to those inspected every 6000?
If you hit the dealer, mine

It's your money to waste but it's not good advice to anyone looking for teh answer to the question "how often should I change my oil".
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Actually, changing the oil more often will cause more wear and tear, I think.
In oil filters, there are tiny holes n the filter that eventually get plugged with dirt. Until the holes are plugged, the filters will let more dirt through than an old filter.
So the optimal time to change the oil is when it is needed, not before.
Jeff
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wrote:

I base my desicion on one simple fact, I always get at least 300,000 miles out of my vehicles. 87 S-10 Blazer with a 2.8 V-6, had 297,000 miles on it when one of my kids totaled it. Engine idled with 25 psi hot. 3 generations drove that vehicle. My 91 S-10 4.3 has 310,000 miles on it, idles with 30 psi hot and at highway speed has 45 psi. My work car is still a baby, she only has 100,000 miles on her but the gauge reads 25 psi hot at idle, and pegs the guage when shes wound out tight. You are correct that brake linnings arent going to go out in 3,000 miles, but wheel cylinders can start leaking, axle seals can start leaking. And uneven pad wear can show up that soon..CV boots can get torn. And as it doesnt cost me any extra to have those items checked, why not? By the way the work car is only 30 months old. I cant afford to be sitting on the side of the road with a break down, and if it has to go in the shop that means I have to rent a car. As I cover about a third of the state I live in, a break down on the road is a major inconvience. It means renting a car while the its being repaired, and if it takes more than a day, having to come back to pick it up, not to mention depending on an unknown shop to fix it. When I was turning wrenches for a living I did this all myself after hours, but that provided me access to a lift. As I said, it just isnt worth my time to drag everything out I need to do an oil change, and then have to get rid of the waste when I can take it some where I know will do me right for $22. So one Saturday a month it goes in for service, then it goes to a car wash and gets detailed. Takes about 3 hours. So like I said, its cheap insurance.
Whitelightning
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wrote:

It's not cheap if your wasting your money.
The phrase "cheap insurance" is like permission to waste your money.
Jeff

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By definition insurance is a waste of money. You have to lose to win. Better than 90% of insurance policy owners never collect - and those who do seldom recoup their "investment" When your time is worth money, and you use your car for work, maintaining the car to a higher than "necessary" standard only makes sense (if not cents). You get to chose when the car is off the road, where, and how much you spend.
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"clare at snyder.on.ca" wrote in message
<...>

The idea of insurance is to pool money together to pay for things that too big to pay for individually, like replacing a car after a crash or theft, rebuilding a house after it burns down, running a household after a bread-winner's heart stops pumping, etc.

Yet it has not been shown that "higher" standards will have any benefit at all. And they have a downside, like cost, waste of time, increased risk of having dirty oil until the leaks in the filter media are plugged, etc.

In theory.
Jeff

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