Re: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL

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You could base your purchases on opinions from an illiterate retired used car salesman who pukes "information" in this newsgroup on a daily basis. :-)
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"JoeSpareBedroom" ...

Yeah, you could. Then you'd deserve to buy a POS that costs more money in the long run than that "overpriced" Toyota ever could.
:-P
Natalie
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If that was intended to be me .... sorry. You are waayyyyy off.
RCE
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No, not you.
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"JoeSpareBedroom" ...

Nope - I got who he meant right away. I only see his posts when people make the mistake of replying to him. Usually it's good for a laugh. A rueful laugh, but...
Natalie
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Oh, come on. Don't be so hard on yourself. We know you try......
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When it comes to cars' reliability, CR uses wide-scale "anecdotal" evidence. Their reliability surveys make no mention of the sample size for each vehicle or the percentage rate of problems reported in the survey, not to mention the effect of owner's bias in the surveys. If I want to buy a vacuum cleaner or a dishwasher, I'll read CU. If I want to buy a car, I'll buy what I like.

We owned a Toyota Avalon that had transmission problems and tire problems (OK, tire problems aren't necessarily the fault of the manufacturer, but still...) and a brand-new Honda Odessey minivan that had such a bad engine oil leak Honda had to buy it back under Michigan's Lemon Law.
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The careful application of wide-scale "anectdotal" evidence is what we call "statistics." I like Toyota's stats.
Reliability is just one aspect of your transportation choice. There's capacity, comfort, value and lots of other dimensions. Buying a the car that's top rated for reliability just because it's top rated for reliability is pointless.
However, if you value reliability (and I do), then it's part of the decision. I might like the looks of A better than B but if they serve equally well and B is ranked as more reliable, then I know I'm likely to be unhappy with A in the long run and I'll buy B.

Well, I can certainly understand why you would not buy another Honda or Toyota and I can't say I blame you. However, it appears that more people have been turned off by similar experiences with GM, Ford and Dodge than Toyota and Honda, which would explain their better resale value and higher reliability rankings.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


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Yeah I looked at CR when I bought my 92 Ranger 171K miles ago. Think they described my engine as a "primitive but reliable design". The truck didn't really get great marks as I recall particularly compared to the Toy, but it's held up better than most of the Toys purchased around the same time by people I've known. Can't really take CR too seriously since.
Maybe some of you "toyota can do no wrong" people can 'splain to me why it was ok for toyota to intentionally try to hide the engine sludge problems they were having for so many years?

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"FDRanger92" ...

*snip*
Oh, for the love of all that's holy, don't start that sludge shit again.
First of all, I've never seen anyone on the alt.Toyotas forum say Toyota are never defective. Sure they are. The difference is in how the defect is handled, and of course, the severity of said defect. From what I've gleaned, the sludge problem was augmented by poor maintenance, but even so, that is apparently a true defect in some Toyotas of the past. Haven't heard of any new ones with that problem.
None of the Toyotas we've owned have ever had sludge, or dangerous (as in exploding cars) defects, but they've certainly had minor problems. The one we bought in the 80s had shitty exhaust, until we had that replaced. My Echo had wimpy floor boards, that Toyota alerted me to, before I even noticed. Ditto some sort of brake problem (nothing serious)
Ford, GM, etc., have a tendency to blame the consumer when something goes wrong, until they're backed into a corner. This is one of the many reasons people don't have the trust they once had. I remember when domestic cars were all the rage, but that time has passed. I think we can get it back, if they start treating their customers *and* their employees better. Look at how many cops went up in flames, driving the Crown Vics before anything was done? Shameful.
As for trucks, I personally would lean to a Ford. You see Ford trucks on the roads all the time, and from all eras. They're quite tough, and everyone I know who owns one loves it. So if I wanted a truck, I'd check out Ford first, then probably Dodge. I don't feel the Japanese have a good grip on large vehicles. Yet.
Natalie
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Nope. They learned from Chrysler to loosen up some of the engine tolerances. <g>
RCE
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"RCE" <...

prevalent.
:-P
Natalie
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Thats funny the poor maintanece claim was by Toyota who was turning down warranty claims even when the owners had reciepts showing every scheduled service was performed by a Toyota dealership.

The orginal Toyota Van had engine fire issues, thou not as bad as Nissan's Van which was a roman candle. It also had steering gear bix issues, and problems with the lift gate staying closed in an accident.. And as far a dangerous is concerned, How about the Prius problem with a steering shaft failure as in it breaks, and while on that note the 89-95 4 Runners and 93-98 T100s had issues with steering relay rods breaking. and then there are the 2005 Avalons that they forgot to weld the yokes to the steering shafts. Toyota truck issues,2001-2002 4 runner, 2001-2003 Tacoma, 2004-2007 Sequoia and 2004-2006 Tundras experiance premature front lower ball joint failures And toyota has had an ongoing issue with hub bearing failures. The camry has had issues with the fuse boxs
defects, but they've certainly had minor problems. The one

I must have a really good dealer. 2003 Cavilear, got hit right front cornor. 4 months later engine light comes on, take back to dealer, 15 minutes later they are moving everything out of my car into a rental (I do onsite POS equipment repairs these days for restaurants, the trunk is always brimming so they moved a lot of stuff) seems the tranny had a problem, they rebuilt it under extended warranty. My out of pocket cost for all of it,$0. My esxtended family has been dealing with them 22 years because the service has always been as such, even though the dearship has changed hands 7 years ago.
Whitelightning
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On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 05:33:52 GMT, "Whitelightning"

That is simply not true.
No one that had their oil changed at the correct intervals at a dealer developed sludge....
--

Scott in Florida




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wrote:

And you can prove this? And what was the correct service intervals? 7500 miles, 5000 mile, 3000 miles?
No matter how you spin this, certain Toyota engines sold in certain years were more likely to development significant internal sludge than engines from most other manufacturers. I am not going to claim that all the complaints are valid, but it seems to me there are enough people complaining about certain Toyota engines compared to other engines (even Toyota engines from other years) that there was a design flaw. Claiming otherwise seems to fly in the face of reality.
Ed
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wrote:

You're probably right. But, keep in mind that in your last message (the one I'm replying to now), you were debating with Scott, who is proof of a condition gerontologists formally recognized many years ago: Minds which atrophy from lack of use, often as quickly as muscles.
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On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 10:15:53 -0400, "C. E. White"

No one has ever posted their service records to prove they developed sludge if they serviced their car at a dealer.
Only reason I challenged anyone to post them is that most people would trust that evidence.
There were a lot of people that 'said' they changed their oil at 7500 or less...but no one posted their receipts.
--

Scott in Florida




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wrote:

I suggest Scott you do some research , try back issues of the St. Petersburg Times and the Tampa Tribune as well as the Orlando papers. The States Atternoy General got involved in the rucus in Florida and there was talk of a class action suit 3, 4 years ago.
Whitelightning
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On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:08:25 GMT, "Whitelightning"

No one has developed sludge in a Toyota engine if they changed their oil as recommended by Toyota.
No one has posted valid receipts to prove they changed oil and developed sludge.
One thing Toyota did was install a maintenance reminder light to keep soccer moms from developing sludge due to not changing their oil.
--

Scott in Florida




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wrote:

Always hard to prove a negative. I doubt you can prove that at least one Toyota owner did suffer from sludge even though they changed their oil as recommended.

You are addressing a fairly small audience here. Only a small percentage of people who have read this newsgroup ever had a sludge problem and an even smaller percentage could produce years worth of reciepts for oil changes. I do my own oil changes. I can find reciepts for the filters and oil, and I can even show you entries in my log book, but I am sure you would not consider these "valid reciepts."

An excellent idea.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html
Ed
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