Re: GM, Ford reputations take a hit

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The difference between 1, 4, and 5, as they pertain to the VIN, define the US content. You however chose to believe something else. ;)
mike


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I always thought the first number in a VIN meant that country the car was built in. Nothing to do with content, but where the car was actually built. My Bonnie has a '1', as it was built in the US. Trans Am's and Impala's have a '2' cause they are built in Canada.
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Some US built cars have a 4 or 5. Mike keeps saying that those with 4 have 40-70% US content and those with less than 40% have a 5. He said a retired engineer friend of his said this was so. Yet, Mike has never been able to provide any evidence that this is so. Nothing I have found is consistent with his view. The truth is, it used to be only 1's, but they had to add 4's and 5's when there were not enough IDs for manufacturers left in the 1 series.
Jeff
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My US assembled Sonata has a 5. It is 25% US, 75% Korean parts. Of course, it still may be just a new series of numbers as you point out.
This has some information, but not correct. http://www.vehicleidentificationnumber.com/vehicle_identification_numbers_vin_detail.html
They state the first digit is the country, but 5 is not listed. They then state the second digit is the manufacturer, buy my Hyundai has an "N", they say is for Nissan.
This shows a 5 as US http://www.angelfire.com/ca/TORONTO/VIN/WMI.html#ccode
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wrote in message

http://www.vehicleidentificationnumber.com/vehicle_identification_numbers_vin_detail.html
The first 3 characters indicate what is called the "world manufacturer ID," or WMI. The first digit indicates the country or region of manufacture. For example, 1, 4 and 5 are US, 2 is Canada, 3 is the rest of North America, and J is Japan. However, it is all three characters that identify a manufacturer, not just the 2nd one. For example, 1ME is a WMI for Mercury, while 1M1, 1M2, 1M3 is one for Mach Trucks. The reason why 5 was not listed is probably that 5 was added last as a US VIN, because it needed more numbers than was possible with just 1 and 4 as the first digits, because so many different companies make trucks, cars, motocycles, off-road vehicles (off-road vehicles have their own VIN system, but it shared VINs with on-road vehicles until a few years ago), construction equipment, fire trucks, buses, etc. Usually, the type of vehicle is identified as well, like pickup, SUV, sedan, motor cycle, etc. That is why there are more than one VIN for Mack.
So it is a combination of all three characters, not just the first two that identify the maker (and the type of vehicle), including the country it was made in.
Jeff
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The reason for the '5' is that vehicle has less than 40% US content, not to be confused with the NA parts label that applies only to parts.
I'm not sure of the meaning of the 'N' designation without doing more research, but the Mustang since 2005 is currently being built in the former Mazda Flat Rock plant and the manufactures assembly plant designation is "ZVF" not 'FBP' as was the 2004, built in Ford Rouge plant that now building the 2008 Taurus
mike

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You are free to believe whatever you chose, but lets apply some logic that easily disproves your 'many different vehicles' theory for more than one digit being assigned to the US, rather than just one as is the case for other countries.
Most ambulances are build on Ford truck chasses and thus use Ford VIN numbers. A piece of farm equipment, or whatever, would have the manufacture designated by the digit following by the first digit that would be different from each other and different than a car or truck manufacturer. The body, plant, engine etc., numbers would all be different as well. The digit that defines the type of SRS would not even be needed on most. If the number built, of a single manufacturer of a single model, with single engine in a specific assembly plant exceed the six sequential number assigned to those particular vehicles, the check digit is changed allowing for 999,999 more to be built in that plant, of a single manufacturer, of a single model, with single engine
Knowing that, what in the world leads your opinion that it is the number of vehicles that requires the US to use 1, 4 or 5? If that is all of the evidence, as you call it, you found, do more search WBMA. The government body that defines WHICH number, 1, 4 and 5 as they apply to vehicles assembled in the US, is the US Department of Commerce
mike

<snip>
the reason why there are three different first digits

> Jeff

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Still having a problem with logic when it comes to VINs I see. Tell me from your source what YOU know to be the number or letter that is applied to the VIN for the engine in a 500? The body code for an F150 RWD and 4WD. How about a E150, or a Lincoln Town Car? How about the letter for the drive type for a Caterpillar dozer, or the engine type on a Harley Fat boy? ;)
mike

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When did I ever say anything about the US code? Try looking in the right place, WBMA. I might point out you can NOT find anything that would lead you to believe your 'so many different vehicles' theory either because that is not factual. You might also look to the FTC to find the Honda complaint about Toyotas misleading advertising, regarding 1, 4 and 5 as well ;)
Please stop saying I got my information from a other engineer, that is not what I said.. What I did get from him was the place to find the reason for the three different numbers assigned to vehicles assemble in the US, rather than just one.
mike

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On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 19:20:12 -0500, Mike Hunter got out the hammer and chisel and etched in the wall:

I dunno - you're top posting, so we have no idea what you said.
http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html
Read that, or the other 110,000 google hits for why top posting is bad style.
--
kai

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Jeff wrote:

OH NO!! Does AL Gore know about that!! One of our greatest natural resources: VIN's - wasted :)
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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No one said the VINs are wasted. I drank a bottle of soda this morning. Now it's gone. But it wasn't wasted.
Jeff

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Jeff wrote:

It was a joke (notice smiley face). Don't analyze it.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Keep searching, you will find it but not in the US code
mike

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