Re: GM's Dick Wagonwheel dont wanna rub butts in bed with french

Page 5 of 10  


Didn't you read the list? Reports from people who own the actual cars.

I don't think being in the majority is that important. But, what he is pointing out is that more people prefer GM, DC and Ford than other makes. This attests to the quality of the cars and trucks thaey make.

EPA numbers are not exact numbers, but estimates. The actual numbers depend on who is driving the cars, how they are being driven, where they are being driven, etc. What Mike is saying is that when people drive their cars in the mountains (like those of Northeast Pennsylvania - I am there now), the mileage that you get is the same for the Camry and V-8 Impala. This is quite plausible. My father has a Pontiac Grand Prix. The way it is geared, when it is going on down the high at 70, it is going at 2000 RPM. My car (a Contour) goes around 2900 or 3000 RPM at that speed. Based on the way it is geared, I could see that an Impala might get the same mileage as a Camry, especially considering that it takes the same amount of energy to move a certain weight (a car) over mountains.
I could certainly see how these two cars can get similar mileage numbers when traveling the mountains of Northeast PA.
Jeff
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Many of us drive the same car, eat the same foods, drink the same beer as our parents. Over time, we find there are other options and try them out. In my life, I've owned two brands of German cars and a variety of US cars, not considering a Japanese car. If I was happy with the US cars, I'd not bother looking very far.
I'd like to know what percentage of buyer switches from US big three to foreign and either stays or comes back to US. How many start with foreign and go to US built and stay with them because they are better?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jeff wrote:

What list?
Unless it's a very long list or those people drove both of those cars under very similar conditions, week after week, I wouldn't consider the results to be very accurate.

Only if you can prove that they buy those brands for quality and not other factors. Even I once bought a Ford for nationalistic reasons.

Then what am I supposed to use, unreliable anecdotal evidence? I also posted Consumer Reports numbers, which I've found to be much more realistic. But even if EPA numbers don't reflect real-life driving, they're considered very accurate (highly repeatable) and are apples-to-apples comparisons.

But Mike provided no proof and wouldn't even dispute the numbers presented to him.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

This list, you know the news group.

Niether would I. I explained how the peopel could have gotton the results. I did not say they would apply to me.

Percieved quality is one of many factors that go into buying a car. There are other factors, like the dealer, the person's history with that make, what friends say, what ads people see on TV, in newspapers and in the subway, what they saw at auto shows, what the currect deal is at the dealer (like 0% financing).

Yet we don't drive under the same conditions as the EPA tests are run. So they don't apply that well. They are rough estimates. Even though the tests are repeatedable, they have limited applicability to real life. For example, the EPA tests are done with air conditioners off. Try that in Washington DC, and the eggs in your grocery basket will hard boiled when you get home.

I don't think Mike is lying.
Jeff

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jeff wrote:

Mike Hunter: Give it a rest. All I see is you criticizing and otherwise badmouthing others. I had a '93 Pontiac Grand Am for 9 years, 113,000 miles. That damn car gave me nothing but problems. Gone through two water pumps and one alternator, and a gas guage problem that was never fixed by the dealer. And that was the 3300 V6. I did not have all the other associated problems that came with the infamous Quad 4 of the same years. My confidence in Ford and GM is very low. I will probably never buy another "American" car again. And if I did, Ford and GM will be at the bottom of my list. If GM was so great, then why would they need a WRX to badge under SAAB?? Why would they need Toyota to badge under Geo?? Why would Ford need Mazda to badge under their models?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The same reason Lexus badges Toyotas as a Lexus, or Acura badges Hondas as Acuras, I guess.
mike hunt

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Lexus IS a Toyota in more elegant refined packaging, made by the same company. Acura IS a Honda in more elegant refined packaging, made by the same company. A WRX IS NOT a SAAB by any means, and same for the others I mentioned.
If you are going to preach all your opinions on everyone then you should get your facts straight my friend.
Mike Hunter wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
(...)

My Contour has 131,000 mi on it and is going strong. No major repairs. The biggest repairs were two wheel bearings and an axel in 9 years. Pretty good. Around $1000 maintenance and repairs total.
Why does Mazda resell Fords? Because Mazda can't make an SUV as good as the Escape or a truck as good as the Ranger on its own.
Jeff
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jeff wrote:

I don't think the Escape is that good. Knew someone who had one and had many problems with it. My brother had an Explorer and had many problems with it. Now he has a Toyota 4runner. Much better truck in my opinion.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
(...)

You're going to find people who have had the opposite experience with Japanese cars that, let's just say didn't work out, and American vehicles that did. Mike Huntrer talked about a guy who had problems with a Toyota-made vehicle and ended up with a Mercury. My father's company bought a Toyota SR5 truck in the 70s. Ran great, except it rusted out. The Checy S-10 they bought a few years later is still going (although they had to put a new bed on it a few years ago because of rust).
Because of the varied needs of people (e.g., people with kids have very different need that single college kids or retirees), and different tastes and experience, people look for different things in cars. And people will continue to buy differeent types of cars, just like people buy different things at reastaurants.
You're never going to get one car maker to satisfy the needs and wants of everyone.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mike Hunter wrote:

What would brand of automobile does a person have to buy to be in the majority, and how can that be achieved when no company controls anything close to the majority of the domestic market?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I see why you continue to be confused, you are the only one taking about brands. I am taking about the 'opinions' of individual Americans, concerning the vehicles they actually choose to buy. What I said was more Americans buy vehicles from GM and Ford than any import. Therefore, in their 'opinion' they are the better vehicle on which they chose to spend their money.
If want to talk brands, BOTH GM and FORD individually, sell more than any individual import. Therefore you personal opinion that any particular brand of import, is better than the vehicles GM and Ford have to offer, is that of a minority since individually they sell more vehicle in the US than any import individually. Got it now? ;)
mike
.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
If GM is so great, why are they on the verge of bankruptcy and looking at Renault to bail them out?
Depite its claim that it offers more cars that get over 30 mpg on the highway, GM has the worse corporate fuel mileage record of the Big Three plus the Japanese imports.
Great cars from a great company, HA!
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:22:09 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

They are not looking to Renault because they want to, that was forced on them by Kevorian.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
But as I said more buyers choose to buy their vehicles than any import. So the fact remains both GM and Ford still sell more vehicles in the US than any import, and the have more models that get 30 or more MPG, than any import as well. ;)
mike hunt

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

arguing the virtues of one brand over another is like the abortion issue. Very, very touchy topic. I just think people oughta buy American cars if they live in America. And not some bullshit American branded car that's actually made in Mexico or Korea. Plus American cars have more character and personality than foreign cars! We are the country that produced the Pontiac GTO Judge, Olds 442, Dodge Challenger, Plymouth Superbee, Dodge Dart GTS, Dodge GTX, Buick Grand National, Pontiac Firebird, The Plymouth HemiCuda, Ford Mustang, Chevy Camaro, '55 Chevy, '49 Ford. CASE CLOSED! Take your boring Toyota Camry's and shove them up your buttocks.
-
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I'm merely pointing out some demonstrable facts. Others are offering opinions, telling others to buy their favorite brand, not me. If asked my opinion I tell others to drive and price all those that suit their needs and then buy the one that best suits their budget. From what I know of the automotive business today ALL manufactures are building good, high quality, long lasting vehicles. The only REAL difference among them is style and price ;)
mike hunt

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You used to be correct. What is exciting about an Impala? Malibu? Lacrosse? Ford 500? Concorde? Stratus? Boring. Case closed.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Agreed. The current American designs are uninspiring. The new 2007 Camry is pretty cool.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote in message

I think the Fursion, Escape, Explorer Sport and Mustang, the Dodge VIpe and Charger (did you see the police version), Nitro, Durango and Dokota, Chrysler 300 and PT Convertable, , Pontiac Vibe, Chevy Avalanche and Saturn Vue and Hummers are all pretty cool.
It depends on what you like.
Jeff
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.