Re: ? Info: Switching gas brands, midwest

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:36:36 GMT, Backyard Mechanic


It's the Ethanol, not the brand.
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what you are experiencing is what congress wants to put a tax on. the energy content of fuels. they want to start with fuel oil, because it has more BTU's per gallon than propane or natural gas.
applying that to fuels used in the automobile, if you are using regular 100% gasoline and you drive X miles, does it stands to reason that an ethanol (which contains less btu's per gallon than regular gas) mixture is going to give you less than X miles. and furthermore, increasing the mixture with more ethanol will give you even less miles yet.
another way of explaining this would be to look at your engine as an energy convertor. it converts latent energy (fuel) into motion energy (movement) if there is a lot of latent energy in the fuel, then the convertor is able to get more power from that energy and cause greater movement. that is clearly shown by the use of diesel engines vs gas engines.
the energy of the fuel does not have to do with the octane rating. in other words, you can have 87 octane 100% gasoline and have more energy per gallon in it, than the same amount of 87 octane/ethanol mixture.
which is why you have noticed a difference in the gas mileage of your car.
i hope this helps.
~ curtis
knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional
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c palmer opined in

I evidently did NOT do a good job of explaining things..
I am VERY aware that the energy content of ethanol is lower than gasoline.. and for some time I have felt ethanol was an unnecessary rip off, especially in EFI cars.
What I am pointing out is that my mileage varies by 10% depending on whether or not I use a 10% ethanol blend. Same area, same driving patterns.
WHICH WOULD SEEM TO INDICATE THAT I AM GETTING NO ENERGY AT ALL FROM THE ETHANOL PORTION OF THE BLEND.
And I really wanted to know if others noticed this big a difference.
As well as point out that the old BP blend that many of us grew to despise may be gone.
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at first, i was thinking you weren't aware of the difference between the ethanol and gasoline BTU content - but you are, so i missed the boat on that one.
as to your feeling on it being an unnecessary ripoff goes back to the gov't again. they gave a way of the farmer to cash in on his corn crop at the cost of the driver. the driver is still paying the same amount of sales tax on that 10% blend which amounts for somewhere of 40 so, in all fairness, shouldn't there be a 4 drop in sales tax since it's not 100% gasoline and you really are getting less for your money, which we both agree on.
the whole situation is about money in general - taxes, higher pump prices, more profit. they want to driver to look at EFT's and fuel delivery systems, the mechanics of the engines, because while we are doing that, they are putting our money in their pockets.
it's all part of the spot light trick. the spot light trick? how does it work? real good. here's an example - if OPEC raises prices on oil today by $5 a barrel, within hours, all the gas stations will have reflected that change. why? the gasoline that was in their tanks is still the same gas that was there yesterday selling at a cheaper price. don't you wish you could do that?
case in point - there is a law against it, but it doesn't seem to apply here. if we have a natural disaster, say a hurricane and you have wood, emergency supplies in your store, and you decide to raise prices because something happened, you will go to jail because of price gouging.
yet, the prices go up and the fuel in the tank stayed the same. isn't that price gouging?
i don't want to sound like i'm on a stump because i have a gripe, but it really is in response to what you said. when the gas companies say that have to change the blend from summer to winter - or vice versa - when you get 10% less gas mileage for the same cost of gallon, didn't you just pay more for the cost of driving your car and therefore in a round about way - raised prices. you paid for.......but got less. and the company made more profit, the gov't make the taxes off of, but the consumer got stuck for the bill.
and for what's it's worth, 60 minutes did a show on the difference gas companies going to the same gas depot and filling their tankers with the same fuel. go figure.
my position is that i do agree with you and wanted to load your guns up with information that supports what you saying too.
hope this helps.
~ curtis
knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional
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I am from the midwest and have been using gasahol for years, so have done many comparos, almost hard to tell the difference actually, as in at 20mpg car it is only about a .5 mpg diff. I have heard of out east using some 20 to 30% blends to gouge people so maby your getting caught in that. KB
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On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 17:04:38 GMT, Backyard Mechanic

Yeah, that's about right, slightly better than water.
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opined in wrote:

Well, sure... but ethanol is not supposed to cause more than a 3 -4 % loss in mileage.
10% seems TOO much a difference.. just finished the fourth tank. still up there.
I always thought that ethanol was a scam. But... If other people find the same result, that means the supposed gains in pollution reduction are totally negated.
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Less than a year ago a local gas station was changed to an Amoco station. BP/Amoco is new to my area of Central Texas. Since it's handy to me I filled up my truck. I began smelling the distinct odor of diesel almost immediately. Once that tank was used, I filled up at another brand. That diesel odor was gone after awhile. A month/so later I again filled up at the Amoco store and the odor returned.
When I checked the mileage, I noticed a difference in my mpg. The Amoco was about 2mpg less per tank than the other brands. Since I drive the same route and speeds everyday to work/back(50mi round trip) I'm wondering what Amoco puts in their gas to give the diesel odor and less mpg? I think all the brands in my area are 100% gas, at least I've not noticed any signs notifying of a 'blended gas'.
Dave S(Texas)
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opined in

Interesting... shows to go ya that you should use only high-volume supplier gas.
EG: Citgo in Central Ohio is a BAD choice.. but is probably fine in the NE. BP actually is a high density brand here in Ohio.. which was "Sohio" until BP bought them
But I just saw some idiot -supposed expert- on MSNBC say there's no difference where you buy your gas.
Dont believe that! AT LEAST only buy from high-volume stations
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