Re: 'Like house of cards,' used trucks fall

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Sound like a great time to buy a new or used full size truck for those that need full size trucks


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Mike hunt wrote:

Don't forget to get the bankruptcy filing kit and learn to love your negative equity.
--
Civis Romanus Sum

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Mike hunt wrote:

I have a feeling that in 2 to 3 months, when Ford, GM, Dodge, Toyota, Honda and Nissan are trying to get rid of the last of 2008 trucks, the prices will even be better. Of course, Ford is offering employee pricing on pickups, but it sounds like Ford is still having problems selling them. Toyota is having problems selling its trucks (although the Tacoma gets 25 mpg - I think it is the best of all pickups but with 2WD and 4 cyl). Considering that the Honda Ridgeline is not really a work truck, I imagine that there may be big sales on those, as well. I'd like one myself, if the price of gas goes back to about $0.40 per liter.
Jeff
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Ford is delaying the introduction of the all new 2009 F150, to allow dealers time to sell of the 08's. GM is going to keep the current full size truck for the time being. Truck sales will pick up again in the September to February, normal buying period, for those that use trucks in their business. The current ANNUAL selling rate for the F Series is still over a half million.

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Mike hunt wrote:

I think they will go up too. However, there is also a glut of used trucks on the market, which may both drive down sales of new trucks and depress the prices.
We'll see.
Jeff

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Get real. New truck buyer and used truck buyer are two different animals. Buyer that use trucks in their business do not buy used trucks. Buyers of used trucks are no different than buyers of used cars. They can not afford new trucks

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wrote:

than necessary. You ONLY drive a new truck ONCE. Then it's a used truck too. The 0% deals have made new trucks the same cost as many used trucks if you are financing - but with used prices dropping, saving the first year or so of depreciation can still be a bargoon.
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You certainly are entitled to your own opinion. ;)
<clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada> wrote in message

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wrote:

I've owned exactly ONE brand new vehicle in 40 years. More trouble in the first year than any of my used vehicles (except one POS I knew I should not have bought)
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You certainly are entitled to your own opinion. ;)
<clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada> wrote in message

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This might be true in the corporate world, but I know pleanty of smaller farmers who buy used trucks all the time. This is particualrly true for trucks that see only seasonal use. The farmer that picks my crops has two tractor trailer rigs, and several 10 wheel straight trucks - all were purchased used. His ride around truck was a new vehicle, but he has several work pick-up trucks that were purchased used.
I would argue that the smart operator would evaluate the new/used decision and purchase the most cost effective vehicle. I suspect many smaller non-farm buisness also purchase used vehicles. In some cases I suppose they can't afford new vehicles, but I am sure there are buisness that buy used becasue it fits their buisness needs at a lower cost.
Ed
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Perhaps you friends may need a new account. A truck, that is just another "tool" in ones business, must be considered at the total cost of ownership over the life of the tool. If one intends to keep that tool till it is not longer dependable to be used in the operation of that business, buying one with mileage is unwise.
Think about it in the case of a vehicle, when does one begin to spend the most money to keep that tool at the point where it will not fail and be out of service, the first 50,000 miles or the last?

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wrote:

If I can buy a lightly used vehicle with 60,000 miles on it for $6,000 or a new vehicle for $40,000, and I only put 6,000 miles a year on the vehicle, I will have the vehicle for TEN years to put it up to 120,000 miles. If I but it new, I will have it TWENTY years to get it there. It will rust out long before I get the mileage on it - so for me it makes a lot of sense to buy used.
I have bought vehicles 6 years old and driven them 12 years without major expense. Friends buy brand new vehicles and have more trouble while they are under warranty than I have for as long as I own mine. They sell them when the warranty runs out - and the problems are all fixed.

Sadly, with a lot of new vehicles, the first 50,000 is every bit as troublesome as the last 50,000.

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How would you know that? You just said you only buy used vehicles ;)
As fro me I have owened more than 70 new vehicles and never had a problem with any of them.
<clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada> wrote in message

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wrote:

field any more - but have a brother still in the business. I've seen enough new "junk" to have formed an "educated opinion"

And how ong have you owned them - I generally own my vehicles for 6 to 12 years - getting rid of them at 10 to 18 years of age. Used to put a LOT more miles on them than I do now. Generally never got rid of a car with less than 200,000 miles on the clock.

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There was a time I too could not afford to buy new cars, but I did not try to kid myself into believing it was a GOOD idea.
Like a large portion of Americans, that must commute to work, I knew I could not always count on my used car to go the fifty miles I needed to travel one way to get to work, no mater how well I maintained the car. ;)
<clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada> wrote in message

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wrote:

And I could count on the fingers of one hand the times my used vehicles let me down before last month. Then twice in one day - and my daughter driving, not me. The one (A 14 year old GM) bit the dust for good at 375,000Km. The other ( a 10 year old Ford with about 62000 miles) took about 3 hours of labour and $75 in parts to replace some rusty brake lines.
Bought another used vehicle to replace the dead TransSport. Six years old, 60,000 miles, for $6000.
Even if money was no object, I'd likely still buy used vehicles.

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I felt that way, before I started to make a lot of money. Now I replace my two daily drivers every two years. I currently own a 2008 Lincoln MKZ and a 2009 Mustang GT convertible.
I still have a collection of some of the cars that I bought new a '64 Mustang convertible, a '71 Pinto, a '72 LTD Brougham convertible, a Lincoln Continental Mark VI, as well as a '41 Lincoln Continental that was willed to my by a friend.
The fact is it costs money to maintain those old cars. I prefer to put the money into new cars. All of my old collector cars are in pristine condition, have between 100,000 and 300,000 miles on them and generally only driven monthly for up to 100 miles at a time. I do not NEED to depend on them as my only driver nor would I want to, if I lived is some part so Canada.
<clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada> wrote in message

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It costs more money to buy new every 2 years than buy used and pay for the occassional problem. The only people who can economically justify the new vehicles are people who's time is so valuable that even a couple of hours downtime stuck in a dealership waiting for a repair will cost them a lot of money.
There's plenty of people like this in the world, I'm sure you can think of a few off the top of your head - stockbrokers, investment bankers, specialist surgeons, etc. These are specialists who work at very time-sensitive jobs. If your patient is bleeding his life out in the ER you can't be sitting in some mechanics waiting room.
However there's a whole lot MORE people making a lot of money who like to THINK that they are in this class, but who really aren't. For example a lot of company CEO's are like this. Well guess what, if the CEO was really doing his job he would have a competent staff able to handle the normal everyday business, and he would only get those "emergency" calls every once in a great while. The incompetent CEO's are the micromanagers who no competent second in command can stand working for them, and as a result the CEO cannot turn his back for a minute without some fire happening that only he can fix.
CEO's that understand this are people like Mike Eskew, the CEO of UPS - he never flies first class, always coach, has no limo, and even carries his own bags. Your not going to see him buying a brand new car every year because he thinks his time is oh-so-valuable even though he certainly can afford it, since he makes something like 3 million a year.
My experience is that the folks who run around claiming that their time is oh-so-valuable that they absolutely must have new cars all the time are invariably the ones who's time ISN'T. The real truth of it is that they simply like buying new cars and feel guilty about it, and so spend their time kidding themselves that they "have" to have a new car. The people who really do have to have a new car generally don't talk about how they need it.
OK, well as they say, it takes all kinds.
The fact is that a new car purchase is a luxury for most people. For businesses, it is that, but also it can be a sales tool - businesses that tend to sell products to easily impressionable people find a lot of value in blowing up to the customer in a brand new vehicle. They find that they can make more money in sales if they project the image of a rich successful business and having the brand new vehicle is part of that image - thus it's a legitimate business expense for them. If you ask them about their new car they will be happy to say how they just liked the look of it and decided to get it - you won't hear them say they need it as part of the image to sucker you, even though that's probably the truth of the matter.
This is why car rental agencies get new cars. It's not because they have to have them - Rent-a-Wreck has survived and thrived, buying used and renting them. If used cars were that mechanically troublesome - as you claim - then Rent a Wreck would have disappeared. It's because car rental agencies with brand new cars can get more money for renting them out. Since all the agencies get the same percentage of the rental, the agencies that can rent for a higher dollar-per-day make more money. Pretty simple math.
It's an image thing. It's not a need thing. And during economic tough times, the people buying vehicles as an image thing stop doing it.
That's why the new truck market is going to be in the toilet for a long, long time. It is simply because the folks buying new trucks because they wanted to - because a big new SUV or truck as a commuter vehicle made them feel like they had a big dick or something - have stopped doing that.
The manufacturer's volumes are set for the market that was both people who need the new truck and people who just wanted the new truck. Now the market is just people who need the new truck. And until the manufacturers all ramp production down of trucks, there will be an oversupply of new ones and a huge glut of used ones. Considering the domestic manufacturers don't appear to know how to make a profit selling small cars, I think that rather than ramping things down, they will all spend their effort trying to grab market share and push their competitors out of the truck market.
Ted
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You certainly are entitled to you own opinion, but me thinks you simply are rationalizing because you can't afford to by new cars.
Have you ever noticed, the first thing most people do when they are willed, or win, a lot of money is buy a new car. ;)

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