Re: R.I.P. General Motors (1931-2006)

If you actually read what I wrote, you might (but maybe not) see that I not only stated very early that it was my opinion, but a bit later in the thread I also explained how I formed my opinion. If you did that, maybe you'd stop asking the same question repeatedly that I have answered repeatedly.

I thought one reason for posting here was to state and discuss opinions -- as long as they are not stated as fact.

Communism.?

mike

That's what he said. It's still in his quote below if you look for it.

Well put. I said essentially the same thing recently to a liberal friend who was off and running on the standard lefty rant against people who drive SUVs.

My only beef with SUVs is practical, not political: it's that I can't see around the goddam things. That being said, it's far more meaningful to me that people here in America have the right to buy and drive whatever they want, and can afford, to buy and drive. Don't like SUVs? Then don't buy one.

Geoff

I look back to the 1950s when there were no SUVs and very little pickups and people got around just fine. I know lifestyles have changed since then, but I think it is more cost-effective to take the two days off from work a year that it snows bad enough, rather than purchase a $35,000 SUV especially with $3.00 a gallon gas prices.

I lived in the mountains of Western Virginia for many years. We needed a SUV or any type of vehicle that had 4 wheel drive. You would not believe how dangerous it is to drive to work each day when the roads are covered with snow or ice. It's possible to buy a SUV for less than $35,000. Honda has a SUV that cost about $22,000. Kia probably has at least one SUV that cost much less than $35,000. Jason

Subaru has the Forester which Consumers Reports rates as "Top Pick" in the small SUV category. Around 22,000(US) I have one (04 Forester XS). I get 34mpg (Imperial Gallons). I occasionally tow my utility trailer, Forester is rated to tow 2400lbs. I can carry 5 people comfortably. Subaru has one of the top "Owner Satisfaction" and "reliability" ratings on the market today. Plus, If I want to go fast, really fast, I could have gotten the XT (Turbo) model with over 240hp, 0-60 in less than 6 seconds. To top it all off, these are reallly easy to re-sell when the time comes, they are hard to find used. If, and when I need more vehicle for whatrever trip or purpose, I'll rent it for the day, or weekend, whatever.

Hmm; from what I know of the 1950s, the pickups were actually pretty big. The very little ones didn't come out until the 1960s, when Datsun started importing them.

Geoff

The point is there are plenty of good SUVs available on the market that can be had for around the same price, and get as good fuel mileage, as a mid size sedan. Many a mid size sedan carry only five passengers. To say people don't NEED SUVs is ridiculous

mike hunt

You are forgetting that lots of people had Jeeps in the

1950's. Lots of people purchased Jeep Cherokees in the 1960's. I don't remember whether or not the pickups made in the 1950's had four wheel drive. Jason

I think you're ignoring what I said and responding to what you think I said. There's a huge difference.

Although it is MY OPINION that many people that own SUV's don't need them, it does not mean that I don't think that anyone who wants one shouldn't go right out and buy one. Hell, I was in the military for

24 years so I could defend American's right to do what they want within the law.

I was merely bringing up my opinion for discussion in light of the discussion regarding American car makers problems and the rising gas prices. Stating my opinion as long as I don't force it on anyone should not be considered "communism" or "ridiculous".

I agree with everything you wrote -- including the parts about not being able to see around them.

Really? People have a right to drive whatever they want? I guess I missed that in the Constitution.

Here is a fact for you. You absolutely do not have a right to drive whatever you want. In fact, you don't have a right to drive anything on the public roads. You may qualify for the privilege of driving legal vehicles on the roads in conformity with all laws and restrictions. Once so qualified, you may purchase and any vehicle you are licensed to drive which is legal for use on public roads, subject to many restrictions. For example, you are not be allowed to operate a heavy truck on many roads. On some roads, you can not operate a pickup.

So what is the argument about? It is about what (not whether) restrictions should apply to the size and construction of passenger vehicles and how we will permit them to be operated on public roads.

Now that we have established that you do not have a right to drive anything you want, we can discuss what you should be allowed to drive and under what circumstances and qualifications.

Unfortunately, the collective decision of million of people to replace cars with SUVs has adverse effects on highway safety, pollution, traffic congestion and fuel costs for everyone. That is why there are restrictions on what you can drive on public roads.

Gordon McGrew cried out

Well said, you can't drive a lawn tractor down the interstate can you? A texas driver with a class c (standard) licence can not legally purchase a class a (commerical semi) vehicle nor operate such vehcile on public roads.

Most people who buy SUVs don't need them and would be better off with another type of vehicle.

But to take your challenge, I went to Edmunds.com to see if I could find a 4WD SUV for about the same price as a 4 cyl Accord EX using their "True Market Price." I admit I didn't look at every possible SUV but I looked at least ten likely candidates and threw them out until I found four that were less than $2000 higher than the Accord. The four were Escape, CRV, Santa Fe and RAV4. I equipped them all with mid to high end trim, AT and the smallest available engine. The SUVs ended up costing $500 to $1300 more than the Accord.

Escape CRV Santa Fe Accord RAV4 City 19 mpg. 22 mpg. 18 mpg. 24 mpg. 23 mpg. Highway 22 mpg. 27 mpg. 23 mpg. 34 mpg. 27 mpg.

All of these SUVs are "crossovers" and none can match the milage of the Accord.

I visited the suzuki.com website and found out that they have an SUV (Suzuki XL-7) for sale that starts out at $21,999. It's my guess that a 4 cyld. Accord EX starts out at MORE than $21,999. Jason

Perhaps, but w can still buy one of they want. The government call not controll what vehicles buyers choose to buy. They can requlate what we buy via a perversion of the Commerce clause but not what we buy, as long as it meets of the current regualtions, The environuts have tried for years to dictate what we buy againe with more perversions of the Commerce clause like setting fuel and safety standards, but they have yet to ontroll what we buy. They would love to do so, sort of like the former USSR

mike hunt

If that is the case you must really hate six wheelers and semis ;)

mike hunt