Re: Toyota drags down new-vehicle quality average; Ford leads Detroit 3 gains, J.D. Power says

The problems that may show up early on are the best indicator of overall build quality, but the fact remains ALL vehicles fall within the 2% failure
range for ALL manufactured products, that is why they all have a warranty, even Rolls Royce. Differences of 1% are meaningless. EVERY manufacturer is making great cars today. The only REAL difference among them is style and price.
My advise, when people ask for my advise because of my experience in building, selling, and servicing vehicles, is to test drive those three or more that best suits your needs, then get a total DRIVE HOME PRICE including selling price, dealer add-ons and financing costs, if you must finance, from at least TWO dealers of the top two or three models you choose then buy your vehicle from the dealer nearest you home that gives you the best price and has the lowest shop rate.
It never made sense to me when I was in retail, why some people are willing to pay 20% to 30% more for some of our brands because they thought they were "better." Thinking you will not get one of the 2%, is foolish at best. The odds are far greater that you will get one of the 98% that are trouble free.
Personally, I run two cars (trade or sell the one that is two years old) and get a new vehicle every year. I Email a list of what I want in the vehicle, to the Group or Fleet Sales Manager(s) at numerous dealerships for a bid price. Then I visit the dealerships that give me a price, closest to what I know I should be paying for the car as equipped, and get a total drive home price if I end up trading my car.

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Mike Hunter wrote:

Bull. Not ALL manufactured products have a "2% failure range." If I am incorrect, prove it.
If every manufactured product had a 2% failure range, then the space shuttle would never have gotten off the ground, because it is made from hundreds of thousands of components. Buildings would be falling down all the time, because girders would be breaking during construction.
If you were correct, then the average number of defects would be about 2 per 100 cars, not 100 to 200 per 100 cars, as it is.
This has been pointed out to you in the past. And you still don't understand that 100 problems per 100 vehicles is a not a 2% failure rate.

Maybe they all make some good cars, but not all cars are great.

Really?
Gee buying something better for 20% or 30% more is a good idea, if it is better. I paid a lot more for my Apples than I would have for HP's or Dells, but I got better computers. I definitely got a better buy with more more expensive Apple than had I bought a cheaper HP or Dell.

What 2%? Just about all cars have defects, with defects around 100 per 100 vehicles.
You didn't know what you were talking about before.
And you don't know what you're talking about now.

Really? Very few cars are totally trouble free. The average number of defects per car is about one defecte per car (108 defects per 100 cars). http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/news/pressrelease.aspx?ID 10099

Good for you.
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I hate to be the rammer police but since you made the same mistake twice in one line... 'Advise' is a verb. 'Advice' is a noun.

Not to mention that Mike is a big fan of trading in cars every couple years. Depreciation is more important than initial price when you do that. Of course it is stupid to trade in cars that frequently but if you are going to do that, you better pick ones with good resale value. Generally that would be a Honda or Toyota.
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NO! You made the claim - ergo you provide the evidence to support your rebuttal

oranges therefore, a worthless comparison.

How very true. Not all cars are even moderately acceptable

And you do?!!!!!!!! Since when? That would be a major change!!! DaveD
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Dave D wrote:

Did you notice I did? There is a failure rate of 108 per 100 cars or 108% failure rate.

Not when the OP said that *ALL* manufactured good have a 2% failure rate.

Correct. Except that because I work better with my Apple than a Dell, it is a lot of money that is well spent.

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your math is pathetic. that is a little over one per car, which is just over 1% KB

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???????......over one defect per car is over 100% if each car is counted as one unit.

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Kevin Bottorff wrote:

Per cent means per hundred (cent = 100).
One per car is 100%. 1 out of 100 is 1%.
My math is right on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentage

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space shuttle would have that sort of failure. He was proved correct when they have crashed in about 1 in 50 missions.
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Ray wrote:

Look at how many missions were delayed because of problems with the computers, motors, fuel leaks, etc. It is far higher than 2% of the missions.
Jeff
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Exactly. 2% was the catastrophic failure rate. And that was 2% of all missions, not 2% of all shuttles. Fully 40% of the shuttles were lost.
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A 2% failure rate would be the death of most all medical devices. Even a 2% complaint rate could lead to a recall (not every complaint is a failure, but all need to be investigated and probable root cause established).

That would be a better computer for you, probably not a better computer for me (even though I prefer them).

I've had one that I know of that was taken care of by the tranny recall. Of course, some may a different perception of what a defect is.......they all get counted, even the phantom defects.

Yes....I usually pay cash and drive it until the wheels fall off....(figuratively speaking).
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