Re: TOYOTA SEZ IT HAS [another] FIX FOR PEDAL ... DO YOU BELIEVE IT?

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On 02/15/2010 09:25 AM, C. E. White wrote:


oh, bullshit. you evidently haven't driven a toyota, and you evidently don't have any interface with the general public in your work - some people do nothing but groundlessly whine and complain.
fact is, frod paying off the families of the bereaved while continuing to sell vehicles it knows to be defective is "insincere". toyota investigating and concluding that a whiner's complaints are groundless is not - it's absolutely the right thing to do.
"news at 11 - nasa cancels space program because kook from flat earth society complains that 'orbit' is impossible."

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Auris, and our government hasn't mentioned anything about it.
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Clive


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On 02/15/2010 11:22 AM, Clive wrote:

need to add: "VOLUNTARY".
unlike our "fine and worthy" [not] domestics that will spend hundreds of millions of dollars on lobbying and avoidance rather than do the right thing.

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(Cross posting deleted, automatically)

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Really? Why is this in the toyota, toyota.camry, nissan and ford groups?
I told you I am sober. What are you?
Mike Hunter wrote:

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I think you've had too many Jim Beams to drink, JB. Buy a Ford Fusion! Even the biased Consumer Report has flat out said the Fusion is more reliable than its Toyota & Honda counterparts, you're spouting off nonsense about domestics being crap. The Fusions are better looking, more fun to drive, and cost less.
Derek
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On 02/15/2010 04:40 PM, Derek Gee wrote:

consumer reports??? let's have this conversation again in five years derek - you can tell me all about your experiences.
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<I clipped all the repetive attempt to defelect attention from the Toyota problems by ranting about other manufacturers>
Your whole line of reasoning seems to mirror the Toyota corporate philosophy deny, deny, divert attention. It seems to me you have the following opinions:
* Toyotas are perfect
* Toyotas have no problems
* Any problems associated with Toyotas are the fault of the people who buy them
* All other cars except Toyotas are crap
* Whenever it is discovered Toyota aren't perfect, it is acceptable start yelling and screaming about other manufacturers to try and change the subject.
* It is OK to lie as much as necessary to protect the Toyota image
You need to get over the "Toyota are perfect" / "domestic cars are crap" opinion. Reasonable comparisons show almost no difference in quality between the major domestic manufacturers and Toyota.
I can't understand why you think it is a good idea to sweep all these Toyota vehicle speed control problems under the rug. It you honestly look at the data available, I believe you would agree that Toyotas has had more of a problem with vehicle speed control issues than other manufacturers over the last decade. If you want to argue the chances of any one Toyota running away are small, I agree with you. However, NHTSA has to look at the bigger picture. Toyota has at least 10 times more complaints related to speed control issues than other major vehicle manufacturers. Is it reasonable for this disparity to be ignored? These problems were pointed out three years ago. If Toyota had actually worked the issue back then, it would not be front page news now. Your attitude is exactly the attitude that has gotten Toyota in so much hot water now. Hiring former NHTSA execs to help cover up problems is not the right way to go. Co-operating with NHTSA to resolve issues is a much better strategy. The domestic companies figured this out years ago. Toyota needs to figure it out now. Companies don't always agree with NHTSA opinions/findings, but in general working with NHTSA is better than trying to work around them.
Ed
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C. E. White wrote:

That sounds like teachers:
Rule #1: Teachers are perfect.
Rule #2: If teachers appear to make a mistake, they are really testing the students.
<...>
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they have notified me that my car is subject to a "voluntary" recall.

statistics". I notice with amusement that you've managed the last of them.

NBC and ABC news during the late evening, both said that as soon as a recall is issued it was normal for people to come crawling out of the woodwork, hence the large No. of complaints. Whereas Ford apparently just incinerate theirs, keeping them under the carpet with secrecy clauses.

makes sales) then you're even more naive than I first gave you credit for.

stated that their former employment has not influenced them at all, but it is more convenient for you to forget that.

issuing orange stickers. I believe that this is the event that led both the US and UK among others to mandate the use of P-R-N-D-L for A/T vehicles. I's also Frightening to know that you are allowed to drive in our country without passing our test when my fellow country-men can only drive A/T cars if that is what they passed the driving test on.

honest.
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Clive


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Well, Honda would like you to think so. Must be why they stopped releasing their TSB's to the public - no TSB's, the cars must not have any factory confirmed issues.

Regardless of what those POS domestic cars are responsible for, Toyota has a LONG tradition of refusing to acknowledge major issues with their cars. Denial is their game until the public uproar becomes so loud that they have to admit to the faults. Just in the last few years we've had the sludge problem, the truck frame problem, and the sudden acceleration problem.
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On 02/16/2010 07:01 PM, me wrote:

that's odd - my grandmother never gets tsb's delivered in the mail for her frod either. is there something wrong?

how can you acknowledge a problem you can't replicate? like any fault diagnosis, you have to actually catch the problem to be able to solve it. and of course, you have to make account of the idiot/sheeple factor.

sludge comes from oil breakdown and possibly also excess moisture. unless a head gasket has gone, it's hard to see how that could be an engine's fault if a driver is not getting the engine hot enough to deal with the latter, or running it too long to cause the former. or maybe toyota just got ripped for a bulk delivery of sub-standard oil.

toyota are hardly unique in that. and it's the usa-made componentry that's the problem. if they weren't paying sufficient attention to q.c. to catch deficiencies, they do indeed have fault. but it's not a fundamental design flaw like certain domestics we can mention.

same as above. a sticking throttle - q.c. inspection toyota didn't catch from a faulty usa supplier - doesn't mean it's stuck in the full open position. and it also doesn't mean the driver can't use the brakes, select neutral or turn off the ignition. i've experienced stuck throttle, and it sucks. but it wasn't on a toyota and was easily controlled. twelve vehicles [and two crashes] out of many millions driven literally billions of miles is a statistical non-event. planes crash all the time, but i don't hear a political hue and cry about the very real and statistically significant dangers of flying.
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4ax.com:

Who told you that nonsense?
All American Honda TSBs are available at https://techinfo.honda.com (but only to US billing addresses)
If you have a membership at your local library, you can also get them through EBSCO-Host's website, accessed through the library's site (in or out of the US).
Each model year, American Honda typically issues about 90-100 TSBs for Honda-branded cars, and about 70-80 for Acura-branded cars.
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Tegger


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I think the problem is that Honda (and Toyota) forced third party sites like Alldata to stop posting the TSB titles for free. This made it harder to learn of TSBs that might affect your vehicle. You can still find titles of safety related TSBs at the NHTSA web site. However, NHTSA only lists safety releated TSBs (and only a brief description). The vehicle manufacturers get to decide what is safety related, so the NHTSA site isn't much use if you want to find out if there is a TSB for a particular concern that Honda doesn't consider to be safety related. However, if you don't mind the modest fee for temporray access you can get all sorts of information form the Honda site mentioned above. Toyota and Ford (and probably others) have similar sites that give you temporary access to lots of good information. I especially like the Toyota site. I visit it frequently. It has helped me with a couple concerns we had with the SO RAV4.
Ed
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Check out EBSCO-Host. It's all free, except for what it costs you for a library card at your local library.

Go to your local library and get a library card. The librarians will tell you how to log on to EBSCO using your library card number. All the TSBs you could possibly find are there. For free.
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Tegger


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Does it include the full text of TSBs, or just the titles? I need to get a library card (or use my sons).
Ed
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It has the TSBs themselves, and for just about all makes going back to about 1990. I don't know how they do it, but as far as I can see, they're all there. The only ones that may not be there are the very newest ones.
They are separated by year, then by make, then by model, then by sub-model (LX, DX, etc). TSBs that are applicable to several models are repeated in the appropriate locations.
I checked just now, and it's still there, just like it has been for years.
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You are in almost complete denial, just like Hausuki is.
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When are you going to address Toyota's problems? It is obvious to anyone who look that Toyota has major quality / safety issues. Sticking your head in the sand and making up "facts" about 15 year old domestic vehciels isn't addressing the current problems.
As for you trial lawyer Explorer attack sites. They are ridiculous. The cites trolling for clients usually show pictures of 1996 - 2001 models. The only problem is, by those years, the Explorer had completely different front suspension than the early 90 models. So they claim a design defect for late 90's models based on a design from a completely different version of the vehicle. It is ridiculous. All the crap about how Ford didn't update the suspenison from a 1990 Ranger is completely wrong when you are talking about vehicles from 1996 on. If you would bother to do any research at all, you would understand this was a bunch of half baked crap written by a bunch of trial lawyers looking for a pay day. The time line reference is unbelieveable. It mixes letters regarding the Bronco II, early Explorers, late Explorers, etc. They do just about as much research as you - ZERO. Repeating the lies / misinformation originated by other is not research. Accident statistics have never supported the idea that 4 door Explorers were particulary dangerous compared to other vehciles in the class. Find some statistics that say otherwise....
Ed
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On 02/18/2010 05:33 AM, C. E. White wrote:

when are you going to address frod's issues?

it's obvious to anyone who looks that frod has major safety/executive ethics issues.

sticking your head in the sand and making up [unproven] "problems" with domestically produced vehicles that use non-union labor isn't addressing the fact that detroit produces crap and is prepared to kill citizens rather than design properly.

yeah, all except for the parts where they subpoena frod's internal documents that show them to be deciding to continue production, even though they know vehicles to be fatally unsafe.

no, it's the /post/ 2001 that are completely different.

logical fallacy. see above.

stick to the correct dates dude. please.

and yet, oddly enough, trial lawyers have to stick to provable facts in order to win cases. strange how you'd not want to admit that. or not.

"unbelievable"??? it shows the clear and consistent policy of frod executives to dismiss safety because it would cost more. if you don't think that's wrong, there's something wrong with you.

see above.

translation: "daring to point out facts that contradict what i don't want to see makes me feel uncomfortable."

except that their single-vehicle rollover fatality rate - you know, where no there vehicles were involved, so only that vehicle was responsible, and the stats you carefully avoided citing - was three times that of its next rival.

for you to dismiss as "lies and misinformation"???

you know ed, your arguments always work great. right up until the point where you ignore/dismiss facts, operate double standards, and won't use logic.
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