Retails Sales Ranking in California: 1) Toyota 2) Honda 3) Ford 4) Chevrolet

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Bob Palmer wrote:


I hate to agree with Mike, but he is correct on this one, at least for the moment. Ford has a * $6,000 * rebate on the Grand Marquis and according to carsdirect.com they will sell you a base model for $17,544 after discounts and rebate. That is for a car with a nominal MSRP of $25,555. Even a well equipped "LS Premium" version can be had for under $22,000. Not my kind of car, but a bargain if you like that sort of vehicle.
It seems that Ford is giving these things away to try and clear inventory. The St. Thomas, Ontario factory which builds them has been reported to only be running one shift and is probably on the close-down list. I wonder what will become of the taxi and police vehicle market if Ford shuts that factory? Maybe they all move to Dodges ????
John
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dbltap wrote:

Yep, it sure looks like Ford is handing the police car business over to Daimler-Chrysler. An interesting side story is that just before Ford bought Volvo, Volvo had an active evaluation program going with the California Highway Patrol for a police version of the 850 turbo as a cop car. They are used as such in several European countries. When Ford bought Volvo they immediately killed the project as Ford saw no reason to foster competition for their lucrative Police Interceptor line. Yet another short sighted decision. The Crown Vic is an ancient design and the Police Interceptor's days have long been doomed. It was always just a question of when!
John
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By 'ancient design' do you mean RWD, like the 'new' Dodge? LOL
Fords current plans are to build the CV and GM through 2008
mike

<snip>
.> The Crown Vic is an ancient design and the Police Interceptor's days have long been doomed. It was always just

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Mike Hunter wrote:

No, I mean that the vehicle was introduced in 1992 based on 1980s design work. Sure there have been tweaks, updates and freshenings along the way, but it still is the oldest car design still being sold in the US today.
John
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Toyota build the same old designs for years (and they were copies of even older designs), and people claim that is great becasue they are well refined. Ford does the same, and are accused of building ancient designs.
Oh what a feeling.
Ed
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I have no idea where you got your information but there have been far more than tweaks. The engine is state of the art SMEFI OHC V8, with individual coil packs that can get 25 MPG. The tranny is an electronically controlled unit. The CVs frame, body and suspension are all new, as well, since 2000. The CV and GM are both built to far exceed both the front and rear NHTSA crash standards. A build standard that exceeds every other car on the market. Hardy of ancient origin
mike hunt

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You forgot to say in my opinion. The current CV/GM have nothing in common with those built in the eighties or the nineties except that they are still build on a RWD chassis LOL
mike hunt

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wrote:

"Ancient Design" = highly refined design, extremely reliable.
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On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 15:49:53 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

Compare Avalon to CV on Edmunds:
http://tinyurl.com/fqke8
The market price is almost identical.
The Avalon has more power, is generally better equipped and gets much better milage. Over 100,000 miles, the CV will burn about 1000 gallons more fuel than the Avalon. At the end of this period, the Avalon will probably be worth a few thousand dollars more.
Outside the CV much larger and less maneuverable. Inside it is a little larger and carries one more passenger (if you don't mind front bench seats). It's biggest advantage is about a third more trunk space.
The final advantage for the Avalon, it isn't primitive.
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wrote:

The MSRP's might be about the same, but go buy one.

Have you driven one? If you floor them both I suppose the Avalon might be faster (but no one compares the dual exhaust version of the CV to the Avalon in road tests though - the duals are good for another 15 HP), but drive one on the highway. The CV is very relaxed. Keeping up with traffic doesn't require a lot of dramatics. And at least for the CV the EPA numbers are conservative. My Mother has a Grand Marquis and she is averaging well over 22 mpg in mostly around town (a small town) driving. If Ford though adding more power to the CV would increase sales, they have more powerful engines available (from the Explorer or the Mustang) that will bolt right in. Clearly Ford doesn't think mid-range priced large car buyers are looking to drag race each other.

Again, have you actually ridden in a CV. You are talking about packing 5 into a Avalon, while 6 in a CV is not a problem. If you just read the numbers, you'd think they were close, but when you are dealing with Japanese cars, reality is often quite a bit different. I really don't understand it, but somehow the Japanese seem to make good numbers, while still building vehicles with cramped interiors. My Frontier is the perfect example. The vehicle appears to be much larger than a Ranger, however, when I drive the two, I actually feel that the Ranger has more interior room, not less like the specifications indicate. I've had this problem with every Japanese car I've ever owned. They all seem cramped compared to what the numbers say. On the other hand, German cars always seem larger than the numbers indicate. But even by the numbers, the CV is significantly larger in passenger volume and much much larger in terms of luggage volume.

Toyota slaps a bunch of marginally useful stuff on top of a tired old design and people marvel at how new it is. Heck, they just added hydraulic lifter to the engine, only 40 years after the rest of the world.
What makes a CV primitive compared to the Avalon? Neither are exactly pushing the envelope. Is it the fact that a CV has a live rear axle? Ford offers IRS on SUVs, and the press says it is unnecessary. For the intended market, few really care about gee whiz stuff. What makes the Avalon so technologically superior? Front wheel drive? Been around forever. OHC engine - they both have that. 5 speed transmission instead of 4 speed transmission? With all the torque the Ford motor has, do you think it really needs a five speed? I don't. In the Consumer Reports testing, the CV was significantly faster through the accident avoidance maneuver than an Avalon (and they didn't even test the CV LX model with the "sport suspension," better tires, and more powerful engine, while they did test the Avalon XLS model with the better tires). CR gave both the CV and the Avalon an "average" reliability rating.
So in summary - CV costs less, handles better, has more interior room, is reliable; Toyota Avalon costs a lot. However, if you want to be on the cutting edge of 1978 technology, the Avalon is probably your choice, as long as you don't mind paying more to get less. Oh what a feeling. Moving forward. Is Toyotathon over yet?
Ed
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As I say to all that ask me what to buy. Go drive those that suits you needs and buy the one with the best total drive home price, that suits your budget.
When it comes to the CV and Avalon, the CV is more car in every category than the Avalon, and can be driven home for thousands less than a similarly equipped much smaller V6 CAMRY, let alone an Avalon. ;)
mike hunt
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