Still Won't Start

Page 3 of 3  


Stan thanks for the advice. I have everything hooked back up (relay in place also). I probed the socket for the tan/lt grn wire (making sure I was hitting the metal on the contact). I had the multimeter set to 10, so it should register 12 volts. I turned the car to RUN, did not crank. Nothing registered. It never moved. Even tried breaking the insulation and putting the multimeter probe inside the wire, hoping for a good contact. Same thing, turned the key and all I got was 'flatline'. I know the multimeter is working, because I came in and tested it on a battery, read fine.
You called it the ECA, or computer. Is this the same part as the ECM, ECC module, EEC module, electronic spark control module, TFI, just plain control module (per AutoZone), and God knows how many other names? This is getting real confusing because of all of these names. In any event, do you know what it means if it is flatlining? And thank you for trying to help me.
Take Care, Sharon
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Do you have 12 volts on the red wire with the key set to run? Make sure that you have 12 volts at the red wire conector in the relay socket.

of the time.
Stan
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Did it read 12 volts or not?
wrote in message news:Vlusb.2609

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You just confirmed that the secondary ( fuel pump ) circuit is good.

Not really a good idea. You are sending 12 volts to the primary ground circuit, remember the ground is made by the ECM. You can potentially damage the transistor.

Fuel flow is from the tank through the pump through the filter through the fuel rail to the regulator. The fuel pump has enough flow that with no open injectors will produce about 80 psi, which is enough pressure to open the regulator, so the excess fuel goes back to the tank. The regulator will hold the pressure to about 40 psi. You are not flooding anything.

circuit to make the fuel pump run was ok, I've done it as a down and dirty way to make a fast check. The primary circuit on the other hand is a different story. You need to check that it has power when the key is in the run position. Then check the see if the processor is making ground with a meter so that you do not harm the transistor that makes the ground.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I guess I misunderstood all of this and went one step too far. With the following configuration, what would I ground to the car? I have to assume that the yellow to orange is the 'always on' connection, yet with it opening and closing, that doesn't sound right to me. It is the yellow wire that is always hot. Could you tell me what wire here is the ground side of the primary circuit? And is the orange to hot green the secondary circuit? I thought it was, and you say about to jumper it. I guess I am wrong on this, but I sure don't want to screw things up. Can you or someone else please tell me how to do the test that you describe above test of the operation of the circuit, by including the colors of the wires in the description? Thanks for being patient. I am hoping I didn't screw anything up.: Fuse Link ! ! yellow - always hot ! !---------------------------------------! ! ! ! ! / !-----! ! ! / ! ! ! ______!_________________!____!_! ! ! ! orange tan/lt grn red (to inertia switch)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Did you not say you have a schematic? The circuit is the same from about 1980 to 1991. The primary side of a relay is always the side that has the coil. The secondary is always the side that does the work ( turn on or off something I.E. the switch ).
wrote in message

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
What I said is that I have several schematics and none of them actually match my car 100%. I have no idea why. My car should match, as you said, 1980 to 1991, but it does not, at all. I picked up a 1992 Chilton's schematic, and that is closer, but still no cigar. Tough to figure things out. The pic I have been showing you matches (at least) the fuel pump relay wiring exactly. I went to the parts store yesterday to check to see if they had a fuel pump relay socket for my car (in case that is what it is). The guy came back with one that not only does not match in wire color, but does not match the wires in gauge either. He said that it is exactly what my car is supposed to have. I am not sure if my engine has been replaced, or the wiring for the relays has been replaced, or what.
Thomas, please bear with me and answer these questions so that I can find out if it is the fuel pump relay (or wiring socket) or not. Here is the updated pic, showing where the coil is ($):
fusible link ! ! yellow - always hot \/ !---------------------------------------! ! ! ! ! / !-----! ! ! / $ ! ! ! / $ ! ! ______!_________________!____!_! ! ! ! \/ ! ! orange tan/lt grn red (to inertia switch) (goes to or comes from EEC test connector and electronic control assembly)
No direction is shown for the primary (coil) side of this wiring diagram. So, I cannot tell which wire is ground. And I have no idea the origin of the red wire. You told me to first jump the grounding wire of the primary circuit to ground and crank the engine. I don't know if the ground is the red wire or the tan/lt grn one. Could you tell me? Should I have the positive battery terminal hooked up for this? Should I have the secondary line 'jumped' for this (keep in mind that the fuel pump runs constantly if I jump this AND hook up the positive battery side)? And can you tell me what I can expect to happen if that is okay? Will it crank, click? Or, should I be checking for voltage?
Then you told me to put a jumper wire across the secondary connection (in this case, yellow to orange) and try to crank over the engine. Is that with the jumper wire still in the primary grounding wire? Or with a wire jumping across the incoming and outgoing sockets of the primary connection? I am assuming that the positive side of the battery terminal has to be hooked up for this, but I am concerned that if I jump that wire the pump will just constantly run since the yellow wire is an 'always hot' line.
I really do appreciate your help, and I can understand if you are getting a little 'worn out' by all of my stupid questions and actions. This is my first fuel injected car. Everything I have owned before this has been carburated. All this computerized stuff required for fuel injection, with it's extensive wiring, is a little confusing for me. I worked with my husband on our automobiles, but since he passed away 8 years ago; I have worked on them alone. I have tested and replaced relays before, but I had a good matching schematic to go by and a husband to stand next to me to make sure I wasn't screwing up (and vice/versa).
Thank you, and take care, Sharon
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jumper the orange and yellow wire ( secondary ), crank the engine, does it run and keep running? If no tell me. If yes, put the relay back in. Probe the tan wire with the key in run, do you have 12 volts yes or no? If no, probe the red wire with the key in run do you have 12 volts yes or no? I'll assume yes by your posts the relay coil is open replace relay. Probe the tan wire with the key in run, do you have 12 volts yes or no? If yes crank the engine does the voltage fall to 0 volts? If yes the ECM is making ground and the circuit is ok. I do not want to here "flat line" I want to know voltage numbers. Leave the battery cables installed on the battery, the car will not run with them not installed. Also you voltage readings will be wrong.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
> 1988 Mercury Grand Marquis - just drove it across countries and it worked

an open stator will keep the fuel pump from priming and result in a no spark condition,I went through this last month with my 86 it would run until the engine was hot then stall and restart or just stall. while looking under the hood I heard the fuel pump come on and it started when I cranked it. raising the hood a few minutes cooled the distributor and stator enough to drive another few minutes. luckily I was clost to home,$200 later it runs fine..

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Check for spark. Check for proper fuel pressure.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I know that someone here explained to me how to check for ignition spark before, but I can not seem to find that post. Can someone walk me through it again? I think it was pulling a wire (any wire?) and putting an old spark plug in it (don't have one but I can buy a plug) and then holding the plug near the fire wall or other metal part of the car. Have someone crank the engine and see if it sparks. Am I right?
Thanks and take care, Sharon
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Yes remove a spark plug wire from a spark plug. Insert a #2 Phillips into the boot and hold it near just about any part of the engine that is metal. Crank the engine.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Checking fuel pressure with no tools is tricky, but checking for spark shouldn't be. All you really need is to find a spark plug (doesn't matter what kind, as long as it's in half-decent shape), pull the most easily accessible plug wire, stick that spare plug in there, put it on anything metallic (lie the intake manifold), and briefly crank the engine while watching for spark (you'll need an assistant).
I can see the failure-prone TFI attached to the distributor in the 'center' photo. It even seems to be the original one. If it is, it's a miracle that it made it intact from 1988 to 2003 - I had two cars with those, and their TFI's failed much sooner than that.
Here is a simple way of diagnosing a bit further if you see no spark: get a 12V test light (probably just a dollar or two in an auto store). Look at the connector on the top of ignition coil (that's the black thing a bit to the left of center foreground in your 'center' photo, which also has the high voltage wire running to the distributor). There are two wires going into it; red and green with some stripe. Turn the key on and check for 12V on the red wire (poke through the insulation with something sharp, if you can't get a contact otherwise). Chances are that there will be voltage there. If not, you may have a problem with the ignition switch. If you find that the red wire has 12V on it, move your test light to the green one, and have your assistant crank the engine. The light should be pulsing as the engine is being cranked. If it's steady on or (much less likely) there is no light at all, the TFI is probably bad. The reason that there should be blinking is that the TFI is supposed to briefly ground that wire before each firing - that's what completes the coil's primary circuit. The TFI usually fails 'open', meaning that you'll just get steady battery voltage at both ends of the coil when that happens.
Replacing the TFI is rather straighforward, but you will need a special socket wrench for its screws (about $5 in the auto store), because they are deeply recessed and there is very little clearance. First unplug the multi-pin connector (just pull hard on the wires and it should slide out), then take the screws out and carefully SLIDE the TFI DOWN, until it disengages from the distributor. Don't pull it away, because you will break the connector to the pickup inside the distributor. When re-installing a new one, apply thermal compound to the mating surface (comes with the unit). It looks from the photo that the coolant nipple or the sensor which is screwed into it may be obstructing one of the TFI screws. Hopefully not, but it may take freeing the distributor and turning it a bit to gain access. If so, make sure to carefully mark it's location by scratching a line on the body and the top of the engine, and return it to the same exact position, so that timing is not altered.
If this was not applicable to Sharon's no-start problem, at least I hope that it helps somebody with a car of that vintage. By the way, there was a class action suit a while ago, and I think that Ford will reimburse you for the cost of the TFI (and perhaps even the labor) if it had to be replaced.
Good luck,
IK
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Hi Sharon, Can you confirm the wires haven't fallen off the pump or that one of the contacts broke due to rust etc. Have you got a couple text leads (very small wires) to run down to the fuel pump? Give it a momentary pulse to see if it is fact a running pump and not just a jammed pump due to dirt etc. in the fuel tank. It doesn't take much dirt to lock up the pump. Everything here looks so thorough you should have hit on the problem by now. Clip the leads on the pump first, them touch the battery away from the car and listen for thr pump to run. Good Luck BeeVee

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.