Sudden acceleration with SEFI

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I have a new 2006 f 150 with the triton engine and I absoutely loved this truck, but sitting in a traffic jam this past week with my foot on the BRAKE, the truck for no reason accelerated out of control. The
power was more force than the brake could stop and was lighting up the back tires like a dragster at the tree. I had enough wit about me to turn the key off before plowing into the car in front of me. It is in the shop right now and I have been told the standard response. (I confused the brake pedal and the accelerator) Oh stupid me, why didn't I think of that. How can you confuse the pedal sitting dead stopped in traffic???? then why didn't I hit the car in front of me? And this thing about the brakes being stronger than the drive train is a lie.
Let me tell you one thing, I am not a lawyer but a soon to be Non-Ford driver and so will my wife. What I experienced scared me to no end. All the responses I have read from you people on the support sites seem to have the Legal protection ring to it. All I want is for FORD to fix my truck, not feed me a line.
Please see if someone can reply to this without the standard response. If Ford would give me a satisfactory reply at the dealership that they have diagnosed the problem and fixed it, I would change my mind, but that is not what I got. All I can say is wake up and face reality.
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snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net says...

What's the problem, you didn't like the answers you got on the truck NG where you should discuss truck problems?
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You will have to face the reality that, if the tech cannot reproduce the concern, what is he going to fix? He can't replace a part if he can't say why it's broke.
I recall, many years ago.... Audi and sudden accelerations. I don't recall much ever coming from that....
Of worthy note..... we picked up an H3 from the auction and it has become my "pet" for some minor repairs. The very first thing I noticed is that my size 11EEE wont fit between the trans tunnel and the brake pedal.... So, when I drive it, I have to "toe" the gas pedal.... Once, I allowed my foot to slip upwards on the pedal.... you can imagine my concern when I needed to apply the brake rather suddenly.
While that anecdote may or may not have little to do with your concern, it is somethiung I can reproduce..... I know nothing of your stature, your shoe sie, your driving position, your driving style (one foot or two) or anything else. What I do know is that there are fail safes built into the ETB system.... I do know that I have never heard of this concern before.... and I do know that the internet has offered you a certain amount of anonymity.
If you have a concern, you need to work WITH your dealer to rectify it... There should be civilized conatact with Ford customer service and a field engineer should become involved.... Act like a dork and they will treat you like a dork....

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On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 04:29:15 GMT, "Jim Warman"

The Audi case that was the poster child of one of those investigations went down in flames when they learned the driver had had more to drink than she could walk with making it necessary to drive the Audi.
Lugnut

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The Folks at the Ford dealership were very cooperative and truly believed I was sincere. They contacted a few Tech reps (from which they get their advice) and were told that this had be a common occurrence since 2005 and that Ford has receive many complaints. In this situation they can put a data recorder in the vehicle and said that either 2 things happen after that; they never hear from the customer again (understandable) or when they come back the data shows 100% of the time that there was full throttle and full brake. (This also means it happened for a second time, you would think someone would learn to adjust how they drive after cleaning their underwear the first time.) This is where I believe Ford can't see the forest for the trees. What they are reading is a data output, if I had the recorder in my truck that day, it would have read the same thing. The issue is, was the foot on the accelerator when the output read 100% throttle? My situation was this, I was stopped in a traffic jam, and when I moved I didn't touch the accelerator, I just lifted off the brake to move 1 car length or so and was at dead stop when this started, meaning my foot was fixed and had been fixed for a minute or so when the event started. (1 footer). I doesn't take much brake to stop you going 1 mile an hour so I doubt it ever crossed the plane of the accelerator. The dealership wanted to replace the PCM and some other device, but Ford would not approve that ($1200). The truck has 4000 miles on it. I told them that they would be wasting money anyway if I thought they were guessing. I need a confident feeling they knew what the problem was. I am now looking at the Nissan titan and the Chevy Silverado but I understand the SEFI is not a ford product and my first question before purchasing will be; what type of fuel delivery system does the vehicle have? Nissan calls it Electronic drive-by-wire throttle. Ford calls it Sequential EFI. I need a strong truck to tow my boat and I may have to sacrifice quality and good looks for a cable throttle I can live with. The only thing I have a problem with is, someone else will eventually be driving this vehicle. My dealership told me to follow up with this and file a formal complaint with ford. They were good people but their hands were tied.
Thanks for your reply and if anyone else has experienced this with a 2005/2006 product let me know
Jim Warman wrote:

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On 14 Oct 2006 06:15:34 -0700, "Jim P"
Jim, If the dealership or Ford has offered or can be convinced to install a monitor in your vehicle for a period of time, I would jump right on it if for no other reason than to catch it on the off chance it does act up again. If there is a screwup in the system, the PCM and it's software would be suspect after someone has completely gone over the wire harness and all connections with a fine tooth comb. As far as trading for another truck hoping for something better, I think you will have a hard time finding a current full size truck with a cable throttle. Even if you do, keep in mind that also have a failure rate known to the manufacturer and has already considered that in their reliability predictions before ever approving the electronic system. Fortunately, these systems generally fail to advance the throttle when they malfunction. As pionted out in your other thread, the heavy duty over the road trucks have used similar systems for several years with many vehicles now over 1M miles with no problem. With the old mechanical linkages, we occasionally had problems with hangups, freezing, return spring failures and disconnects. Comments I hear from fleet maintenance managers is positive for drive-by-wire. The next big thing will be braking by wire. They are also developing steer by wire. Personally, I don't think you have anything to gain other than personal comfort by trading vehicles and, I know that feeling when you lose trust and faith in something you must depend upon. The only way you are going to regain that trust is either find the problem or trade the vehicle. In todays market, you are just as likely to get a good one as not or to trade one set of problems for another - you have to make the call.
BTW, SEFI only means sequential electronic fuel injection which is pretty normal in all makes these days regardless of the manufacturer's proprietary marketing name.
Good luck Lugnut

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SMEFI simply mean the fuel nozzles fire sequentially with each cylinder, rather than into a manifold to be distributed. An Electronic drive-by-wire system sends a signal to the microprocessor to control the rate of fuel supplied to the engine rather than a direct mechanical connection. An electronic drive-by-wire, multiport, sequential, fuel injection system is the most modern technically advanced fuel system available on the market today
My guess is the microprocessor detected a stall condition when you stopped and tried to adjust the idle to compensate and you over reacted and applied throttle rather than the brakes. In any event the error code would be in the operational record if the is indeed a fault.
Any Ford or LM dealership should be able to analyze the system to determine if indeed there is a fault.
mike hunt

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Mike Hunter wrote:

Is the throttle position still measured with resistive sensors, or are better sensors used?
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A throttle positioner is a potentiometer controlled by 4 to 20 milivolts (1V to 5V) signal sent from the microprocessor.
mike

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You are correct Mike. In my investigation it seems most trucks now have the drive by wire system and actually brag on it. I'm am now questioning the benifit of trading for a different Truck because if that truck has the same system, I have no more comfort than I have now. I have seen replies from both sides of the street and I appreciate everyones input. This is how you educate yourself. At first I was freaked out and Now I am freaked out but more educated.
do_not_spam snipped-for-privacy@my-deja.com wrote:

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do_not_spam snipped-for-privacy@my-deja.com wrote:

So why do they still use pots, which commonly suffer mechanical wear, and not magnetic or optical sensors? There are rotational Hall effect sensors that are virtually bulletproof.
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snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net says...

Do you know if it has an electronicly controlled throttle, or a standard cable-to-a-throttle-body?
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Hogwash. What you describe is physically impossible. The BHP designed into the braking system of any vehicle is far greater than the torque developed by the drive train. NO vehicle, with a proper operating four wheel brake engaged, will move, period.
Anybody who doubts it, can prove it to themselves. Apply the foot brake with your left foot, then apply as much throttle as you wish. The vehicle will not move
mike hunt

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I have a new 2006 f 150 with the triton engine and I love this truck, but sitting in a traffic jam this past week with my foot on the BRAKE, the truck for no reason accelerated out of control.
"Jim P" ______________________________________________________
What you describe is physically impossible. The stopping power designed into the braking system of any vehicle is far greater than the torque developed by the drive train. NO vehicle with a proper operating four wheel brake engaged will move, period. To prove it, apply the foot brake with your left foot, then apply as much throttle as you wish. The vehicle will not move.
"Mike Hunter" ______________________________________________________
If you throw your empty beer cans on the floor, one could lodge between the brake pedal and the accelerator. Then when you press the brake it can't go all the way down but the accelerator is floored. It's safer the throw the cans out the window.
SERIOUSLY: It is possibile that a runaway driver inattentively pressed the gas thinking he was pressing the brake, and when he felt the vehicle accelerate, pressed harder. Still, we want to know if there is some other explanation. Whether it's the pickup driver in the traffic jam or the geezer in the parking lot, these reported runaways have two things in common:
1.) The vehicle is stopped, not rolling at traffic speed. 2.) The brake is applied just before the runaway starts.
Under these conditions, runaways could occur if the brake booster had insufficient vacuum (check-valve leakdown during parking, engine-off brake applications, vacuum leak). Then when the brake is applied, it goes to the floor and the driver's foot is allowed to also floor the accelerator. That brake has no stopping power to prevent the runaway.
Perhaps this would not happen to a driver who uses the left foot for braking. Or maybe it would happen to a lefty if his right foot was being squashed onto the accelerator by the brake pedal. Has anyone ever studied whether the runaway drivers are left-foot brakers or right-foot brakers?
Best regards to all AAFers.
Rodan.
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Rodan wrote:

I have a 2002 ranger, and i wear workboots all the time... the gas pedal in these are WAY too close to the brake, and if you jump from the gas to the brake, you can easily hit the gas at the same time... its happened to me...
Another thing i've noticed in the older style 04 & down or whenever they changed, is a piece of plastic trim on the floor that your boot catches on sometimes when you have the accelerator half down or so... for work i've driven many of this style, and they're all the same, all the way frmo 97 - whenever it was they made the last heritage edition.. 04 or whgatnot....
I was gonna call & complain... but what the hell, eh :P
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What you describe is known as driver error. ;)
mike hunt

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Mike Hunter wrote:

Mike,I would normally agree with you if I had not had the same thing happen to me while I was a Tech for Hertz Rent a Car. The vehicle was a full size Chevy van of late 90s vintage. I started the engine with my LEFT foot on the brake, dropped it into Drive and depressed the gas with my right foot (covering the brake with my left). This is how we moved cars around the lot to keep down the chance of depressing the brake and gas at the same time. The van went to full throttle and took off, I initially removed my right foot completely from the gas pedal thinking I had just over accelerated. Then with both feet on the brake the van would not stop although it slowed considerably. I turned off the ignition and stopped the van. Upon restarting everything was normal. Representatives from GM went over the vehicle with a fine toothed comb and found nothing. They decided that I must have hit the throttle instead of the brake, of course. AFAIK, it never happened to that particular vehicle again. I know for a fact that I was no where near the gas pedal as this van dragged itself 200' across the lot at full throttle. As with my experience, the OP did not have the brake fully applied initially. I think that is why the vehicle moved. Had he had the brakes fully applied when the full throttle anomaly happened, the vehicle would have stayed in place.
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Drivers can and do make mistakes, but one can not defy the laws of physics. If the brake is applied the vehicle will not move, period.
mike hunt

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On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 09:40:42 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

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Years ago, I had a Ford Fairlane with weak motor mounts and a somewhat messed up throttle lingage. If you put the car in gear, pressed on the brake pedal, and then pressed on the accelerator, the engine would shift over becasue of the weak motor mounts and open the throttle more. The brakes were strong enough to hold the car in this situation, but it was an interesting "feature."
As for the OP, the 20006 F150 is a fly by wire vehicle. So some sort of electrical fault could open the throttle. I think it more liklely is was pressing on both pedals at the same time. And the harder he pressed on the brake, the harder he pressed on the accelerator. I have large feet and I found myself more than once pressing both the accelerator and brake pedal at the same time on my 2003 Expedition.
Ed
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