Tan/lt grn wire/Fuel Pump Relay

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Here is the odd thing I have been trying to figure out since trying this. I put the wires on all the connectors, except the tan one. I put an alligator
clip to that connector of the relay and the other end was clipped to the alternator housing to insure a good ground. When I turn the key to 'on' only, I do not hear the relay click, but I do get a clicking noise in another area of the car. I also do not hear the pump run. When I put the key to 'start' and try to crank the engine, I get nothing.
About the clicking noise I am getting while in the 'on' position when doing this test. It is located on the passenger side. I can hear it with the passenger door open very well, but when I go to the engine, either above or under the car, I can't hear it as well. And I can hear it through the glove box okay, but again not as well as through the door crack. I have taken a digital pic and put a section of garden hose in where I heard the sound best:
http://www.rare-cancer.org/car/click.jpg
That is the passenger side door and that hose is inserted just about 4 inches into the fender area. That seems to be where it is the loudest. Okay, an addendum. I tore the passenger side coverings off of that area and kept narrowing in until I found it. It is in the driver side kick panel. There is another relay in there. If I have all wires hooked up on the fuel pump relay EXCEPT the tan wire. I ground the connector for the tan wire to the alternator housing, I get the clicking in this relay under the kick panel in the passenger side; when I turn the key to 'on'. I can feel the click also. Is this an expected situation Thomas? That the fuel pump relay would not click, but this relay would? Do you have any idea what this relay is? I tried to find it on the parts locater at AutoZone. No dice.
Take Care, Sharon
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Are you sure you are working with the Fuel pump relay? What color was the original relay? Better yet, why not take a picture of the relays that you are testing and post it.

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This was my concern from the 'get-go' because there was such a conflict on the wiring diagrams. If you recall, I kept asking if someone could send me a wiring diagram specific to my 1988, because the ones that I had (86 and 92) did not match 100%. They were very close, but not perfect. The ones that I have posted to the group were the closest:
http://www.rare-cancer.org/car/relaywire.gif
According to the old part number stamped on that relay, it crossmatched on AutoZone's website as the fuel pump relay.
The other relays, however, do not match that wiring diagram. I am going to send give you a pic of the relay housing and explain to you what is inside there. Then I will do a pic of the passenger side, kick panel and it's wires. Give me a few minutes. I still have to ask myself why grounding the wire to one relay would cause another relay to click.
Take Care, Sharon
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wrote in message

I have looked at the schematic, it is correct. What makes you think it is not? The circuit you need is and has been the same for all model years. That is the same circuit used on Fords EEC 4 system across all model lines. The only exceptions would be vehicles that have constant control modules. Your car does not have a constant control module.

How do they not match the schematic? What makes you think this?

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They are not on there? The wiring diagrams that I am using show two relays only. Can you show me wiring diagrams for the others? There is one more in the housing, an extra one on the side of the housing and one in the kick panel. Do you have a wiring diagram that shows those? If so, I would really appreciate a copy of it. I would like to see the relationship between the fuel pump relay and the relay in the kick panel that is getting clicked by it when I ground the fuel pump relay. I know you may disagree 1000% with me, but I would just like to see the relationship.
Thanks and take care, Sharon
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not part of the engine controls. Just because they are mounted in that location does not mean they are part of the working circuit. When you turn the key to run you power up the entire car's electrical system. Anything that has a relay associated with it will "click" if that system is on. You can not see a relationship, because there is not one. Do not believe me? You can order the EVTM for your car from this site http://www.helminc.com it is in stock.

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never clicked until I put the ground on the connector for the tan lt/grn wire. It was not clicking at all before. Somehow, someway, there is a connection. I did not turn anything else on. I did not touch any other controls. I only put the ground alligator clip on the tan/lt grn wire connector for the fuel pump relay and for the first and only time since we have started this whole procedure, I got a click on that relay inside the car. In fact, that is the first relay click I have gotten on any relay. That did not happen before. So, something 'tuned on' by my grounding that connector that has not turned on during this whole process. I, of course, wonder what circuit got completed that had not been completed in the past. It may be a clue to what is happening overall. Never mind Thomas. Thank you for your help. I will not frustrate you anymore. I appreciate what you have tried to do. And when I find out what is wrong, I will most certainly let this newsgroup know for future reference.
Take Care, Sharon
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Okay, here is the complete story on the relays. The original relays that I started working with are here (driver side, front of engine, near windshield washer/overflow tank), under the two rectangular black housing units:
http://www.rare-cancer.org/car/relay1.jpg
As you can see, I still have the fuel pump relay out and working on it. Within the right side housing are two relays. One had a part number that crossmatched on the AutoZone site as the EEC relay. It was originally brown. The wire config for that one is black, red/lt green, large orange/black, large black/orange. The other relay in that housing is I believe the WOT relay. The wire configuration is black/yellow, large tan/lt grn, red, orange/blue. In the left housing was the fuel pump relay. I crossmatched that on the autozone website by part number also. It was originally green in a green socket. It is the one with the large orange, large yellow, red, tan/lt grn wires. On the front side of that whole housing unit is mounted another ?relay. Not sure about this one at all. The wiring configuration is yellow, yellow, black, and a yellow wire jumped across two connectors.
Lastly, here is a pic of the relay inside the passenger side kick panel:
http://www.rare-cancer.org/car/relay2.jpg
Sorry the pic is a little blurry. It is green and black in color. And the wire configuration is white/purple, blue/black, large yellow/green, black. Notice the yellow wires also coming into that area. They are all in the same wire housing. Makes me think there may be some connection eventually to the fuel pump relay above. Obviously there is, since grounding that relay is causing this relay to click when I turn the key to 'on'!
As you can see Thomas, the only wiring diagrams that I had that even came close to matching my car's configuration are the ones that I already posted:
http://www.rare-cancer.org/car/relaywire.gif
And it did not match the EEC relay wires 100% (note solid black wire is shown as black/lt green on diagram) and none of the other relays were on these diagrams. I can tell you that the diagrams that I have for 1992 match some, but not all wires, and does not show all the relays. And the ones I have for 1986 are the same. And the ones that AutoZone has are nothing like it and the ones that Anthony sent aren't either. I kept saying that I couldn't follow the diagrams totally because they did not match. Maybe now you will see what I have been up against.
If anyone can find me a wiring diagram for my 1988 Mercury Grand Marquis, 302, fuel injected that match the wire configuration that I show up above, I sure would be excited to get them.
I still wonder why grounding one relay would cause another relay on the opposite side of the car to click. There is some connection here, obviously.
Thanks and take care, Sharon
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wrote in message

I don't see what you are up against because if you look at any EEC4 schematic for the fuel pump relay and EEC relay they are the same and work the same. The only thing that changed over the years is the color of the wires.

Again that does not matter.
Again, you have a circuit that you say you can jumper ( yellow wire to orange wire ) and hear the pump and smell ( I do not see how this is possible, it's a sealed system ) gas.
You say you can provide power and ground to a relay on the primary side and make an ohm measurement on the secondary side and confirm an audible click from the relay.
You say you can install the power supply to the primary side of the relay and with out it's ground path installed read 12 volts on the ground terminal, yet when you make a ground the relay not work? The same relay you made jumper for and the relay worked?
There are only a very few explanations for this.

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Let me backup a minute and restate everything again. You told me to test the fuel pump relay (that is in the engine compartment, near that washer tank) by connecting all wires except the tan/lt grn wire. You told me to take the connector for that wire and ground it to a good solid ground and see if that relay clicks. You expected it to click if it was functioning correctly.
I did this and that particular relay DID NOT click. But the relay in the kick panel of the passenger side, did. Is that normal?
Take Care, Sharon
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I don't care about the other relay, it is not part of the engine controls. It could be part of the ATC system if you have ATC. It could be part of automatic headlamp circuit, if you have auto headlamps. It's not part of the engine controls, so I don't care.
I do want to know why that relay you made work with jumper wires, a power wire that you said you made, a ground wire that you said you made will work that relay. You say you put the OHM meter to it and you say you have 1 OHM on the secondary side when you energize the relay and you hear it click? Yet when you install the relay to the car, say you have 12 volts to it, say you have 12 volts through it, you make a ground, and you say it does not work? At this point there is 0 difference from your made up wires to the one on the car. If it works whit jumper wires, it will work with the cars harness. Don't you see the conflict here?

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No
Well, the wiring diagram that I have displayed on that web pages does not even show this relay in the passenger side kick panel. And it obviously is a part of the circuit that goes from/to the fuel pump relay or it would not click when I ground the wire on the fuel pump relay. I would think that would be of some import.

affected by the grounding of the first relay not be of concern to me? I would think that in order to troubleshoot a circuit, I need to know all the items on the circuit and what they do and what triggers them.

NO, I did not say that. I did not hear an audible click on the fuel pump relay, I heard it on the relay in the passenger side kick panel. I connected a ground to the fuel pump relay and heard absolutely no click on that relay. The click was heard on the kick panel relay.

No, I didn't say that the relay worked when I made a jumper for it. I jumped the yellow and orange wires and got the pump to turn on only. I did not get the engine to turn over. I did not get the magnet to activate properly. I just forced the fuel pump to turn on. That does not mean that all circuits involved were completed. It just means that the circuit that goes from the hot wire on the fuel pump relay to the fuel pump was completed. It doesn't prove that the ground side of that relay is being completed properly. Just because the voltage is coming out of the ground connector, it does not mean that when I attach the wire it is actually being properly grounded. The current is not grounding on a wire alone, obviously. It needs to find a solid ground. What if the ground connection is bad? What would happen then?
Take Care, Sharon
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wrote in message

Got the click and the other two terminals read 1 ohm when set on the RX1K setting. Relay is good. Now I have to check out the socket that holds them (again). Take Care, Sharon
What I also want to know is how can you have a 1 OHM reading with a meter set for RX1K. One OHM would barely move the needle if at all when the meter is set to read in the 1000's of ohms..

See above.

You have made posts saying you can get the engine to trun over, but will not start. You made it clear you know the meaning of the word "crank".

If you got the fuel pump to run, you have a completed circuit.
Question, how did you attach a ground at the fuel pump?

What do you think you were testing?

You see voltage on a ground wire, you have no ground. OHM's law.

You see 0 volts on a ground wire? You have ground. OHM's law.

You see voltage on it. OHM's law.

Circuit does not work. OHM's law.

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Thomas, it did click, but only when I tested it directly to the battery. Red wire connector of the relay to the positive side, tan lt/grn wire connector to the negative. It clicked. That was how Stan told me to do it and that is how I did it. I have never gotten the click when it is connected to it's actual wiring. So, in it's current position, it is NOT clicking and never has. Not even when I forced the grounding connector to ground. Nothing I have done, with that relay, has enabled it to click other than directly wiring it to the battery. Yes, the relay works, but no it does not work in it's own wiring. And yes, the connectors are tight and the wiring is good.
I will ask just once more. Is there a fail safe device, other than the inertia switch, that might cause the relay to shut down as soon as it powers up? Bad connection at ECM, bad ground at fuel pump, bad ground at battery, spark delay valve, fuel pressure regulator, distributor check valve, neutral safety switch, a bad fuse, a bad fusable link, ignition switch??? Would a bad fuel pump cause it to not engage properly?
I am going to start with the grounding wires to check things out. I have a list of things to check over time. I do not want to frustrate you anymore than you are already frustrated Thomas. It is not worth it. It has been way too stressful for me and I am sure for you too. If you think of something obvious from my list above, great. If not, let it go.
Take Care, Sharon
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How is that possible? I walked you through tests that proved the relay works on the car. Your posts also show the relay to work on the car. It looks like you are missing something. How is the 12 volts from the battery different from the 12 volts from the cars harness? How is the ground on the battery different from the ground I had you make on the car different? It is not. That leaves very few explanations, I'm not going to go into them. I think you know what they are.

Again no.

A bad battery ground can cause the problem, why do you think I was asking questions about the battery cables?

??????no such device.

Has only to do with the fluid side of the fuel system. No electrical involvement.

No such device.

Only has to do with the starter motor, it works according to your posts.
, a bad fuse, a bad fusable link, ignition switch???
You have power where you should, so no you do not have an open circuit protection.

Look at the schematic, where does the secondary circuit even come close to being involved with the primary? Follow the lines.

You do not have the correct tools to check the grounds. You also do not have the information of what to look for.

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Is the EEC behind the speedometer? If the engine computer were bad, what symptoms would I see? Would my speedometer, at times, get power spikes and a scraping noise that cause it to register erratically? That is the only thing that I ever noticed on this car. It would only happen after a long period of high speed driving.
Is there a way to test the EEC out of the car? At a Ford dealership?
I disagree with you on the grounds. I, at the very least, have my eyes to see if there is a sliced or broken ground wire coming from the pump. I can follow that line down. I did buy a test light, but I am sure you would consider it inadequate because I was inexpensive.
Thanks and take care, Sharon
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Your speedometer cable needs lubricant. You can get it at any ford dealer the part number is E6TZ-19581-A Stan
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wrote in message

It all depends on what is wrong with the processor.

The speedometer is driven off the transmission via cable. No relationship, no voltage spike.

I think you know the answer.

Really? How do you test a ground then? Would you use a analog meter like yours or a digital? What would you look for in the way of a reading? Would you be looking at volts or resistance and what scale? Would you test the ground with the circuit powered up or not powered up?

The cost of a test lamp makes no difference. I'm not shallow.

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clicking, and the fuel pump is not running, and the connections are tight and in the right place. I have checked both over and over again. You have told me that if it is working, I will hear a clicking noise. I do not. I know that you think that I am screwing up on the wiring or that the connections are not tight, but they are, honestly. So, you ask, how is it possible, I don't know what is causing it, but it is factual.
Take Care, Sharon
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wrote in message

Put a volt meter on the secondary side see if the switch closes. Use your test lamp.

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