The Drive-a-Toyota Act

Page 11 of 16  
Nza wrote:


One of my first cars was a 1979 GT. Is yours the Hatchback or Coupe? (mine was the Coupe)
Really nice, fun to drive, & plenty of pep for a 4-cylinder of that time.
God I miss that car...
--
Don't drink water, fish have sex in it!

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This one is a GT Hatchback. It is very predictable on the road and it may not walk off from everything, it will walk off from a lot of things on the highway.. The car has 245,739 miles on it right now.. i got it when the odometer read 00503.. (doesn't have hundred-thousands place). The tranny has about 260,000 on it.. and the motor has 45,000 since rebuild. Like someone else pointed out, it's not modern inside.. oh well.. honestly, when people give me crap about my car, it says a lot about them.. my car is transportation, not my wee-wee. usually it's someone who probably has never held any kind of tool in his or her hand (no pun intended!) at any time and never will either. Anyone who has ever owned a 20R or 22R -engined vehicle gives the appropriate nod when they note the absence of blue smoke coming from the tailpipe of a vehicle that "should have been crushed years ago"..
Don't get me wrong... I'd allow someone to *give* me a newish car or i'd purchase a broken one for next to nothing (like our 1999 ram 1500 van for $1000 + $500 to buy a new spindle for me to install), but i'm not going to contribute (for as long as i am able to not contribute) to the silly idea that everyone needs to be driving a new car and that what i'm driving is unsafe merely due to its age. I have seen lots of younger cars that were totally unsafe.. For instance, the aforementioned van.. when i "test drove" it, i drove about 50 feet before i parked the thing.. the outer wheel bearing on the driver's side was completely destroyed and the inner race was riding halfway down on the spindle.
The only time my car becomes a rolling death trap is when i drive at unsafe speeds... but then any car could be considered such.
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Nza wrote:

If it wasn't for an unfortunate encouter with a '76 MonteCarlo, It might even be on the rod...
Sigh... I miss that car. Simple, elegant, handling was very precise and it had a nervous engine, even for a car from that era. Those things were nicely built, and way better than newer junk :)
If I could find one in a not-so-bad shape (I live in Canada), It might be a really nice project to rebuild one...
--
Don't drink water, fish have sex in it!

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You are the illogical reader that's blind to the big picture. The Prius costs thousands of dollars more comparable non-hybrid autos its size. If Congress forces such high fuel mileage ratings on the entire fleet of new cars (large and small), the hybrid version of the Chevy Silverado will cost thousands of dollars more the non-hybrid Chevy Silverado.
The bottom line is this. Almost everyone is for lower cost energy supplies with a smaller CO2 footprint. But, we will never get something from nothing no matter how hard we wish upon a star with federal government decrees. The Europeans and especially the Japanese have been producing high fuel mileage cars for many years thanks to sky high fuel taxes. In the short term, the most efficient means of achieving a higher fuel mileage is to pass a large fuel tax and then let the free market decide the rest. In the long term, the most efficient means of lowering energy cost and CO2 footprint is basic research on battery technology, solar, etc. paid for my the United States federal government.
Blind, politically motivated, federal decrees requiring higher fuel mileage will only decimate the American auto industry.
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On Jul 30, 5:22 pm, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

actually it has been proven over and over that CO2 is not a big deal. It is the sun that is the big deal and the thing that is the most uncontrollable about "global warming"... elevated levels of CO2 have been proven to follow higher temperatures instead of dictating higher temperatures. C02 is less than *ONE PERCENT* of the total atmosphere of the earth. Actually, God should go ahead and turn this place into a fricking fireball with all the treachery that is occurring all the time...
I remember learning when i was about 9 years old from Mr. Wizard that if you have a glass of ice water ... when the ice melts, the water is not going to run out onto the table. it's just a fact of *PHYSICS*. Try it sometime if you don't believe me. The ice caps melting doesn't cause a rise in sea level. it's actually changes in the land that cause the "rise" in sea level.
And as for "decimating the auto industry". The auto industry is in cohoots with the government as well as the companies that refine oil into gasoline.
Someone said earlier in this thread, "a car is not a train..."..
Well try running a diesel train with a tranny connected to the wheels. See what happens.. The efficiency of the train goes to shit when directly geared to the wheels. They have tried it. And perhaps a tiny fraction of pusher engines that are easier to keep running than replace are still running direct drive. However. Diesel-electric is the answer to this "gas mileage crisis" for right now, anyway.. but as i've said earlier.. the companies and the gov't will not let us have it because it means less dependence on not only foreign oil but domestic production as well. Who's going to make money if we're all getting 80mpg ? Well.. they'll increase it to $7,00 a gallon and cut production even more than they already have.
It's so sad to see everyone jumping on the bandwagon about "saving the earth" when the very people dictating this "saving of the earth" are still consuming at the same rate or even more than they were before (Al MoFuking Gore)... anyone who preaches this shit to me i immediately write off as a liberal sheep who really couldn't think his or her way out of a wet paper bag. They really need a bullet through the brain, post haste. There's a term for people like that... "USEFUL IDIOT"
it is easy to understand why Atlas Shrugged
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Nza wrote:

By that reasoning, why don't close the garage door with the car engine running and read a book. Don't worry about the CO. It will be less than 1% of the air when you are stone cold dead from CO poisoning.
And your brain power wouldn't go down one bit.

Why don't you do this? Get a big bowl. And put a small bowl inside the big bowl upside down. Then put some ice on the top of the small bowl. Does the water rise on the big bowl? Of course it does. Same thing with the ice caps, because the ice is not floating in the water. The ice is on land. For the ice not to effect the sea level, it has to be floating in the ocean. It isn't.

Actually, the problem is the huge amount of torque required to get the wheels turning.

Just because trains work better with electric motors doesn't mean cars will. Cars have the advantage that they are much smaller, requiring far less torque to get going. Transmissions are able to handle this very well.

At least liberals are not stupid enough to think that when ice that is on top of land melts, it doesn't cause the ocean to rise.
"Useless idiot" seems to describe you pretty well.

If brain power or clues were weight, Atlas wouldn't even feel you when you climbed on.
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ok thanks, you must be correct, eh?
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Wrong.
Wrong. Try googling. Read the IPCC report. Read what the National Acaemy of Sciences says, or the Royal Society, or NASA.

Wrong.
Irrelevant.
There's plenty of ice on land -- Greenland, Antarctica.

Diesel is already more expensive than gas, and you want to add electric to that?

Who's going to make money when we run out of oil?

Probably anybody preaching science to you, you write off.

Have a mirror?

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on Wednesday 01 August 2007 10:39 am, someone posing as Lloyd took a rock and etched into the cave:

Diesel is only "more expensive" in some areas because of Supply and Demand. They don't make as much diesel so they can jack the price up, even though it costs far less to produce.
In any case, take a look at diesel from coal.
Though I should learn more, from what I've read, we've got enough to last the next 50 years or more without even bothering to import if we switched some percentage of our cars/trucks to diesel and utilize our coal reserves.
--
www.perfectreign.com

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The Camry is the best selling car in the U.S., right? Yet it costs a little less, as much as, or more than a Prius, depending on the pkg. the Prius comes with, & the model of the Camry. So... IMO, that theory sort of goes down the drain...
Cathy

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Actually a base Camry costs a lot less than a Prius and is a much roomier car with better performance (and decent fuel economy too). If you are talking strictly economics, a Corolla is a much better buy. If you are trying to impress your neighbors with your "green-ness" then the Prius is the way to go. I don't agree with the Wall Street Journal on this, but I think if you check the demographics of who is buying Priuses (?), you will find that they are overwhelmingly purchased by upper middle class Americans.
Ed
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Or, if you care about the possibility of global warming, our balance of trade and funding terrorists, the Prius is the way to go.
You have no evidence, whatever, to support the notion that people buy a Prius to impress their neighbors. The people I know who bought a Prius bought it for various reasons, primarily fuel economy and their conviction that gas prices would probably rise dramatically over the course of time and the vehicle would be cost effective. They're happy with them.
The fact that the unique-looking Prius sells well compared to the ordinary-looking <pick a hybrid> is sometimes cited as "lookitme" green-ness but that assertion overlooks the fact that the Prius absolutely gets better fuel economy than any other gas-powered car available (its unique shape offers about the lowest Cx on the road) and delivers 4 comfortable seats doing it. So, the evidence that it's "lookitme" green-ness is also evidence that people buying it care about fuel economy.

I'd be willing to bet a quarter that most new cars are purchased by upper middle class Americans. They're the ones with the money. Since Prius resale values are holding well, the used Priuses are going to be purchased by upper middle class Americans, too.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


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See above... I listed the various possible permutations. If you get the smallest pkg. on a Prius, is it still "a lot" less? (Guess it depends on one's def. of "a lot".) Personally, if one doesn't need the space, I've never seen the advantage of buying a base Camry over a loaded Corolla LE.

No, a Camry's not much roomier. Have you been inside a Prius? It's plenty roomy. From the outside it looks small, but the design is such that the interior is good-sized.

Pus even lower emissions than my present ('04) Corolla.
and their conviction

Depends upon how much gas prices rise &/or how long they stay up around $3/gallon, how many miles a person drives each year, etc. But then there's also the happiness factor.

I know 2 people with a Prius. One's a veterinarian & the other is a retired classroom aide. I talked with the latter about her car, she *loves* it.

Plus IMO, it's just... cute. And is a hatchback, which can be very convenient.

How about plain ol' middle class Americans? I teach, so I've obviously never been upper middle class. Yet have always bought my cars new, even when in my 20's & making a very definitely low salary. I just buy judiciously.
They're the ones with the money. Since Prius

Extremely well, acc. to the April car issue of CR (which IIRC, C.E. White has little regard for; oh, well...) This, coupled with the rising gas prices, are making me lean even more towards a Prius the next time around for a new car.
Cathy
the used Priuses are going to be purchased

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A bottom price Camry is around 17k. A bottom price Prius is oover 20k.

True, at least on paper. Per EPA interior room rating:
Prius Passenger Volume - 96 cubic feet Luggage Volume - 16 cubic feet 4 passengers
Camry Passenger Volume - 101 cubic feet Luggage Volume - 15 cubic feet 5 passengers
From Consumer Reports:
Prius Front shoulder room, in. 55.0 Front leg room, in. 40.5 Front head room, in. 4.0 Rear shoulder room, in. 52.5 Rear fore-aft room, in. 30.0 Rear head room, in. 2.0 Luggage capacity 3+1 Max. load, lb. 825
Camry Front shoulder room, in. 57.0 Front leg room, in. 42.0 Front head room, in. 3.0 Rear shoulder room, in. 56.0 Rear fore-aft room, in. 29.0 Rear head room, in. 3.0 Luggage capacity 2+2 Max. load, lb. 900
Despite the specs, I find the Prius tight. It seems like a narrow, coffin like space with poor headroom, and no rear view.

A Prius is a Japanese manufacturers car - so if you buy a Prius you are starting out 15K in the hole as far as a balance of trade is concerned.

Well buying one for fuel economy may be the stated reason, but do you really think this can be economically justified?

Good. But how about cradle to grave affect on the enviroment? Don't you wonder about the enviromental costs of the batteries? As for buying a Prius to save money on gas - how many miles do you have to drive to make up the $3K+ higher cost?

Good.
Most people who buy new cars love them. I find that the less rational the purchase, the more owners love it. I know several Prius owners. They all love them. My Son loves his Mustang. My Sister loves her 10 year old Civic.

A station wagon would be even more convient. The Prius has relatively limited luggage room for a hatch back. I bet you I can put more in the rear of a Fusion. Cute is in the eye of the beholder. I at least find the Prius interesting looking. Not ugly, more unique. I think the looks will age well.

I think the Prius is a very interesting car. But economically it is an irrational purchase. But so are lots of other car purchases. It is even more irrational to pay a lot for a used Prius. Sooner or later the battery pack will need to be replaced. Do you want to be holding the bag when this happens? If your goal is minmal operating cost, then a 2 year old Focus is a much better idea than a used Prius. Since you truct CR, they give the Focus exactly the same level of recommendation as the Prius, and a used Focus can be picked up for a fraction of the cost of a used Prius.
Ed
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<hugely snipped>

As pointed out to Mike Hunter - more than once - & not just by moi, the battery has a 8 year/100K mile warranty. I have kept only one car for as long as 8 years (& that was back in '76 - '84) - I usually keep my cars for 6 years, & have never hit 100K miles. If I eventually get a Prius, having to fork out $ to replace the battery won't be worrying to me, at all. Simply because the chances of it happening will be next to nil.

Yeah, it was in '04, hence the purchase of my 4th-in-a-row Corolla. But I seriously looked into the Prius - test drove one (had to go 100 miles one way, just to find one on a dealer's lot back then!) and did all of the math - & really wanted one. But it would've cost - factoring in everything - about $5K over the loaded Corolla, so I reluctantly dropped the idea. Plus there was a minimum wait time of 5 months at that point, & I had promised the buyer of my old Corolla that I'd sell it by "x" date - in 2 months, not 5 or more. So... may splurge a bit & treat myself to one next time around!
Cathy
then a 2 year old Focus is a

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Here's the 2004 Toyota Prius Green Report (life cycle assessment): http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/k_forum/tenji/pdf/pgr_e.pdf (you'll need to download the Japanese fonts for your PDF reader in order to read it, but the entire document is written in English.)
Over the lifespan of the Prius, when compared to a comparable mid- sized gasoline vehicle, the Prius comes out ahead in the life cycle assessment (LCA) for airborne emissions for CO2, NOx, SOx, HC, but actually does worse for PM (thanks to the material and vehicle production stages). Lifespan is given as 10 years use/100,000km. The CO2 break-even point for the 2004 Prius compared to this unnamed gasoline vehicle is given at 20,000km. (more CO2 is emitted during Prius production, but the Prius makes up for it over it's driven lifetime.)
The batteries are easily recycled, so not an environmental issue. (or do you really believe the FUD about the Sudbury facility?)
Sorry, I don't have data on the Ford Escape hybrid/Mercury Mariner hybrid, for the relevant other group...
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Ford licenses Toyota's HSD, do they not?
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not.
There is payment on some number of patents that might be infringing, but there is no outright re-use of anything that belongs to Toyota.
The original Ford design work was done by Volvo, and acquired with that company.
--
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snipped-for-privacy@12.usenet.us.com wrote:

http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_toyota_kickstarted_ford /
The Volvo company that does a lot of hybrids makes trucks and is not owned by Ford.
Ford and Toyota apparently will have a long relationship on hybrids:
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/industry/ford-ceo-interested-in-toyota-hybrid-partnership /
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Actually both Toyota and Ford are likened to each others technology, since it was developed under a joint venture, via Volvo.
mike
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