The Drive-a-Toyota Act

Page 8 of 16  
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:


I gave factual information on NiMH batteries germaine to the discussion. What more do you want. Same question to you as to Jeff: Care to argue the facts that I cited, or do you just want to discredit me?
Another thing - how about addressing the fact the batteries alone can't take the car even a mile and that the fuel efficiency has to come primarily from the IC engine itself.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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OK.
Dude, read what I said: I wasn't paying attention, and I asked you what authoritative information did you give? You have at least partially answered the question. You so far having fulfilled the "authoritative" part of it, though.

Can you read? I didn't see your post, so I don't know what facts you cited. Hence my question.
You are itching for an argument. You know that, don't you.

On a brand new Prius? I've had the batteries take me 2 miles on a flat (no downhill, no uphill) surfaced roadway with no ICE running. Not sure what you're talking about.

Um, on the surface that's a silly statement. The ICE is the only thing that burns fuel, so of course the fuel efficiency comes from the engine.
The fact that the engine doesn't have to be tuned to do a wide variety of tasks, the fact that the electric motors take over some of those tasks, means the engine *can* be engineered and tuned for efficiency. That is not the case on cars that don't have hybrid drivetrains. Those engines have to be overkill in order to handle a very wide range of duties.
Shoot, simply separating the air conditioner from the ICE is a big savings.
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

Sorry - I didn't understand that you literally meant you didn't see the info. I posted - I thought you meant you refused to accept the info.

Again - I didn't know you meant you had not seen what I posted. Miscommunication there.

Not really. I misunderstood your meaning about not having seen the info.

Toyota's own article contradicts that. But they could have understated it to take into account a little aging of the batteries, i.e. not brand new as you stated. But still - two miles ain't much.

You are correct.

So the a.c. is all electric?
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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shoot, I was thrilled.

Yes.
The overall engineering of the Prius, once you get into it *and* live with it for a couple of months, is pretty amazing. They've taken the gross inefficiencies and managed those out of the system; driving the AC electrically is one good example.
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wrote:

I have wondered for a while, so I might as well ask you while it's close to on-topic, how do they heat the thing? Traditionally, passenger space heat is waste heat from the engine. If the engine's not running, there's no waste heat. Is there an electric heating element in the Prius?
--
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I saw one reference where they commented on the excellence of the heater. I don't think you need to worry.
I wonder why they don't use one of the heat storage devices to keep the water warm so they don't have to run the IC engine just to warm the water back up - http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19990224/press004161.html . Or they could use a separate gasoline powered heater for the same purpose - http://www.webastoshowroom.com/BlueHeat/blueheat_faq.htm .
Ed
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Simply using a heating element to speed up getting hot air from the defroster is a good idea and, since I usually dress warmly in the winter, anyway, probably meets my real need, which is to see the road. Even on a conventional car, this would be a welcome feature. I wonder if any luxury cars have it?
Reminds me of a feature that Chrysler once offered on their minivans, a windshield heating element located where the windshield wipers park to help keep the bottom of the windshield de-iced and wipers free (I can't believe no one has copied this feature, nor that Chrysler seems to have abandoned it).

--
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My Lexus LSs and Lincoln LSs had that bottom heater.
mike

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For several years Ford (and GM on some cars) offered an electrically heated windshield. The windshields had a very thin nickel coating on the glass and when a high frequency AC current was applied, it would heat the surface of the windshield. I had this feature on a 1986 Mercury Sable. It was fabulous. When you got in the car, you pushed the windshield defrost button, and after about 20 seconds, the frost on the windshield just turned to water. Unfortunately it was a pricey option ($1k). Ford (and GM ) eventually discontinued offering it. You can tell a car that has the feature because at certain sun angles, the windshield will have a bronze tint.
Ed
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On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 23:34:14 GMT, "C. E. White"

Just like the aviation versions.
Bad for dash mounted GPS, satellite radio, radar detectors, and EZ-Pass, though.
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Bonehenge (B A R R Y) wrote:

Except for the microwaves of RADAR, all of these work on radio waves, not light. And the radio waves can come through the side windows, as well.
I don't know if it would block microwaves, though.
Jeff
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wrote:

I know. <G> The heated windshields messed with all of them as they use high enough frequencies (that don't bend) so the side windows didn't help enough. Microwaves are simply really high frequency radio.
EZ-Pass, satellite radio providers, and some GPS manufacturers even put it in their FAQs. EZ-Pass created a special unit that goes outside, on the front license plate, to deal with the problem.
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Thanks for the reminder; I had forgotten about that. I knew a couple people with that option and they agree; it was like magic.
I suppose windshsields break often enough to make supporting these things difficult. I think cost is one reason antennas are no longer in the windshield (although they are in the rearmost side windows on my minivan, now).
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"C. E. White" ...

Prius owner since January 1 here. The heater does indeed use the engine heat as the heat source, no electric augmentation. We had plenty of heat, and the heat came on as quickly as it does in my Jeep, which is considered to be rather fast and strong. It does lower the gas mileage significantly.
See, whatever it needs heat for, it gets it from the gas engine. There is no other heat source. This is why the gas engine comes on upon startup - to heat up the emissions system so it performs optimally, then it shuts off and is used as needed (sometimes only to reheat that emissions system stuff in the winter).
Now, regarding

they actually do. The Prius uses a thermos to where it pumps a good percentage of the engine coolant when the vehicle is turned off (keeps it warm for when the car is restarted without much of a delay). That is what the whirring sound is at that point, and why there is about a 5 second delay upon turn-on before the engine turns on (it pumps the fluid back into the engine system). Once the car is running, it does not pump it to that thermos, as the engine must reengage instantly when needed. Tomes
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Tomes wrote:

Be aware that most vehicles get lower mileage in the winter, so not all of the MPG drop you've seen might not be due to the heater.
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B A R R Y wrote:

Please drop the second "not" from my comment quoted above. <G>
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"B A R R Y" ...

Yep, agreed.
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I wondered what that was ;-) The neighbor has a Prius. I noticed that she "started" with no engine, but as she was moving away, the engine came on. I thought she had just pressed on the gas a little too hard. I presume that the engine would have shut down again a few seconds later. The engine is so quiet at low demand that it's hard to tell if it's running from a distance of more than a few feet, another plus of hybrid technology for little motors. The cars can ooze away from a stop, up to 20mph or more, with the engine turning 1500rpm for nominal acceleration.
--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

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Yep, the engine would have shut down about a minute later, if it was not needed for propulsion purposes. I like to make sure that I back out of the garage before the gas engine comes on, just to get that little bit of electric usage at that point. Not that it makes any difference in the long run, but I just like to do it.
The engine always runs at one constant RPM (~3500 rpm) because that is where it is most efficient. It then uses the CVT to constantly change the gearing ratio to adjust the speed.
You can read a lot more about it here: http://john1701a.com/prius/documents/Prius_User-Guide.pdf Tomes
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The john1701a.com site is full of good information. Some of the information applies to the Ford Escape Hybrid as well.
The two neighbors that I have might be typical of Prius owners far removed from "John". They don't know much about their cars technically, have never offered to take me for a ride just to show off, and have even said some things that I am fairly sure aren't true. Next time one of those pops up, I might revisit John1701a. ;-)
One bought the car to be green, and really mean it, not to show off to anyone, as nearly as I can tell. The other just went for the mileage, without real consideration of the costs.
--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

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