The Drive-a-Toyota Act

Page 9 of 16  


group on what you think from the inside. Cheers, Tomes
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wrote:

On the North American Toyota Prius, there is the Coolant Heat Storage System (CHHS). It's a small thermos-like device (actually designed by a Japanese rice-cooker company!) that stores some of the hot engine coolant when the car is turned off, and then will re-insert this hot coolant when the car is started, so that the car has hot coolant and the engine doesn't have to run as long at startup to get to proper operating temperatures. The stored coolant stays at temperature for well over a week.
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about that. By the way, it stores about 3 liters of coolant into that thermos. Tomes
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I mis-remembered the timing. 8(
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/Hybrid04.pdf claims up to 3 days. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3828/is_200508/ai_n14900166/pg_4 lists some temperatures, as well as the 3 day statement.
and you are correct, it is a 3 liter stainless steel dual vaccuum flask. The 2004 Toyota New Car Features manual on the Prius, page EG-4, does describe it as a similar construction as a household Thermos bottle.
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hours. This is a good thing. Tomes
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Prius manufactured for cold weather climates do have some small PTC (electric) heaters for pre-heat, but the amount of heat is small and wasn't worth my time to mention it.
Most of the heat for the passenger cabin (and also for the climate- controlled batteries, which suck passenger cabin air over them to maintain their best operating temperatures (which is near human "room- temp") comes from the traditional "waste heat" from the gasoline engine. The fans continue to run after the engine turns off, and eventually the temperature left in the coils is too cool, so the engine will turn back on just to provide the passengers with more heat (or to warm itself and emissions components back up to operating temperatures). So, for those who live in colder weather climates, the engine turning on just to provide extra heat can lead to lowered fuel economy in the colder winter months.
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On the NHW20 2004-current Prius, yes, the variable-speed AC is electrically-driven. (Prius models prior to this used a conventional belt-driven off of the ICE for the AC compressor.)
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Well, you provided an assertion that batteries wear out. While that may be valid, it's pretty much useless and not terribly persuasive. Everything wears out, the question is how fast under what use. Since you claim to be an authority on the subject, perhaps you could describe to us how to estimate the life expectancy of a battery pack given a few factors like cycle time, discharge percentage, ambient temperature, etc. Maybe a word or two on various charging schemes to extend battery life?
--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net

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B.B. wrote:

The optimaization that they have done in the charge and discharge limits for battery life is smart on their part. There's really a lot more to say on that. But yes - as a circuit designer who has designed battery chargers inot commmercial equipment and who has tested batteries for miliatry applications, it is important to play whatever games you can with the charging algorithms to optimize the parameters that are important to the application - in this case - battery life.
That's one reason I never just run to WalMart to buy the cheapest battery charger for my digicams. I get them from Thomas Distributing because they have done some really good tricks to charge and condition during the charge cycle without a separate discharge/recondition cycle.
There - ther's "a word or two".
Let's see - oh - with valve-regulated lead-acid (VRLA - absorbed glass mat) batteries - you have to be careful with traditional lead acid chargers and alternators - if your charging voltage goes above a certain level (2.53 volts per cell), you drive it into a dangerous and potentially damaging hydrogen-oxygen dissociation.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

I don't see where you said you didn't see my post with the info. I gave. If that's what you were implying, sorry - I missed your point. I took you to be saying you didn't accept the facts I gave as being in the categroy of authoritative information. Looks like you and I had a genuine miscommunication there. So maybe we can back the truck up a little.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Done.
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Bill Putney wrote:

Yeah, you've got that right.
You claimed that you cited authoritative sources, yet you can say what they are.
Jeff

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Jeff wrote:

In this particular case, I'm one. But - I guess I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't, as you already consider me a know-it-all. So you're not going to accept what I say even though it is true. Care to argue with the facts I stated? No - I don't suppose you would as your purpose is not to bring out the facts but to discredit.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Bill Putney wrote:

Considering that I don't think that you know what your talking about, and that you started by comparing UPS batteries to hybrid car batteries, I disagree.

Yet, you have the opportunity to provide cite references (e.g., good web pages and even research articles an authority like you should be able to find). Those I will believe.

You have stated opinions, not facts.

Actually, my purpose is two-fold:
1) To bring out the facts. 2) To discredit false information.
Sorry if you have a problem with that.
Jeff

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Jeff wrote:

Yes - I compared UPS batteries to hybrid car batteries as a general case of *rechargeable* batteries. They are different technologies - certainly. But anyone who knows anything about rechargeble batteries knows that they *ALL* have finite lives in terms of charge/discharge cycles (a statistical bell curve is involved of course). NiMH is a specific example of a general case (of rechargeable batteries). So whether you're talking about NiCad, NiMH, lead acid (flooded, gel, or glass matt), Lithium ion, or whatever, they each have a finite number of charge/discharge cycles. The fact that I originally stated (rechargeables...somewhat predictable cycels) is true and applies.
You don't think that... You disagree...
Sounds like *your* opinions. Oh - let me guess - when *you* have opinions, they are facts. Yeah - I get it.

Go ahead - Google the subject of number of charge/discharge cycles of NiMH batteries. If you find they are different than what I stated, I'd like to know. Facts is, what I stated *ARE* accepted facts.

Yes - opinions of fellow experts. Find a true expert who disagrees with the number oif charge/discharge cycles of NiMH batteries.

Only the ones you like to support your opinions, the rest of the FACTS you will label as opinions - proved right here in this thread.

You haven't shown that to be genuine, but it sounds good.

I don't when it's the case, which it isn't.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Great! Can you point to references? Web sites, books, articles?
If you can't, or if you won't...well, leave that as an exercise for the reader to determine the validity of your statements.
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

Here's one that I have found to be more in depth than a lot of others - gets more into the nitty gritty of charging and discharging - this page is one of three parts: http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-11.htm
I like this one: http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-11.htm because for years, the manufacturers have been saying on their packaging (probably still do) that NiMH batteries do not have a memory effect, which I knew to be a false claim. It's appalling how many supposedly techincal and "expert" sites on battery technology have swallowed the "no memory" lie about NiMH. The chemical mechansim for the memory effect in NiMH is totally different in NiCad's, and it is certainly a much smaller phenomenon in the NiMH's, but it is a stretch to say that NiMH has no memory effect.
www.thomasdistriuting has some good technical info. on batteries and their proper charging, but as a rep. for a manufacturer, they do tend to leave out certain facts in a marketing kind of way. IIRC, they say that NiMH do not have memory effect even though they say they have to be periodically "reconditioned" (which is contradictory to claim both - if they did not have memory effect, they would not need to be reconditioned), but other than that they are a good company to deal with (great source for digicam batteries and chargers - their chargers are designed to *properly* charge and condition the batteries unlike a lot of other consumer small battery chargers).
Well constucted Google searches will come up with those and many more sources of info. on batteries - some of them even have accurate information. :)
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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http://www.thomas-distributing.com/index.htm
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

Oops - yes - thanks. Got in a hurry just before going to work.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Oh.
Well, then, I'm an authoritative source on Toyota's HSD, and I know for a fact--based on authoritative sources--that you're full of shit.
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