Tires not holding air?

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m:
Damn straight. It's a rare shop that knows what the red and yellow dots mean. I know that in practice it likely doesn't matter in 90+ percent of installations, but one would think that professional pride would involve "doing it right."
nate
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wrote:

How many shops pay the guy mounting tires more than minimum wage? Do you think you can keep good people and not pay them?
My son just quit a minimum wage job at Jiffy Lube because he felt he was the only one at that store that knew what he was doing and was willing to actually do it - so he was the one they kept busy, while the other minimum wage drones watched.
Ed
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On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 10:39:43 -0400, "C. E. White"

Can't generalize. My son worked at Just Tires for a while before he moved on. Him and a couple others in that shop worked hard. Others were slackers. It's almost always like that if management allows it. You don't know what you're getting until you get it. BTW, Nate, my son says the dots are practically meaningless. He's mounted and balanced many tires using the Hunter Road Force and stopped paying attention to the dots. The Road Force machine results hardly ever matched the dots.
--Vic
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wrote:

required to BALANCE the tire. It has NOTHING to do with making the tire round, or keeping the belts from shifting, or the cords from separating, or the tread from cracking, or the sidewalls from "breathing".
I've had radial tire plys stretch and slip, belts shift and separate, treads separate from the carcase, steel belts break and protrude through the rubber, sidewalls split, sidewalls crack, and air come out through the sidewalls in thousands of places on the same tine - with NO impact damage, under-inflation, or other abose.
I've had tires that balanced perfectly when installed require rebalancing after a week of driving - and the inbalance changed again within days - You could balance out the shake at 9 in the morning and it would be shaking again by noon. If not replaced, the tire would fail within weeks. Might get one out of 4 on a car, or 3 out of 4 - and perhaps a couple sets in a months time - and never see another one.
Or a new tire goes flat - before the customer's car leaves the lot. You throw the tire into the tank, and there are millions of tiny air bubbles coming out of the tire - EVERYWHERE - through the sidewalls - not from a poorly seated bead - and occaisionally even through the tread. Sometimes it's a week or two later the tire comes back flat - with the same type of massive generalized leakage.
Or a 2 year old tire has hardened up so badly that the tread is chunking out, or the tire slides like a steel rim on pavement that is anything close to damp, or warm. Can't pull away with a 4 cyl automatic without the tires squeeling. Can't stop without the tires howling - even at moderate speeds under gentle braking.And over 90% of tread left.
That's BAD QUALITY that has NOTHING to do with "mounting technique"
A bad batch of fabric, a bad or poorly mixed batch of rubber, or a tire builder with a hangover - who knows - but these problems DO occur - and particularly with Chinese and some Eastern European products, the "quality assurance" just is not there. At any stage of the production/ispection of the product.
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On 08/25/2011 09:48 AM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

absolutely. i forgot some of that early eastern euro stuff - i've had a tire literally just fall to pieces of rubber crumb one time. made in the czech republic iirc.
the multiple side wall leaks - that is an absolute corner cut. the tire is supposed to be lined with a layer of butyl rubber [halobutyl to be more precise]. but it's on the inside, and you'll never notice if it's not there, so...
--
nomina rutrum rutrum

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wrote:

No, it was NOT poor mounting technique. The tire carcasses were inconsistant, and the tires went out of round within less than 10,000km (6,000 miles) All 4 went bad, one at a time, over a period of several weeks. After putting up with "bad vibrations" for a couple of months - with the dealer attempting to balance the shake out, the tires were removed and replaced with a diffferent brand

Major brand name does NOT guarantee quality assurance - just makes it a BIT easier to get them replaced if they are unsatisfactory.

I'd have to dissagree with you. After MANY years in the business - going back to the faiure of the Firestone 721 and the Uniroyal Zeta 40M tire series - among many others - where mounting had NOTHING to do with the problems experienced. Those kinds of problems STILL happen. Yes - sometimes poor mounting causes tire problems - but I would say it is not the PREDOMINANT cause of tire problems.

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wrote:

Riiiight. If they can find them in the service manager's round file. What I'd do is just tell the service manager I'm tired of shoving quarters in the local tire pump every couple weeks. If he's smart he'll tell his crew to tank the tires. and fix any leaks. If he's real smart he'll tell them to fix any found leaks, and also break them down, clean the rims and put on sealer, and replace the stems, cleaning and sealing there too. Then CE will be a happy camper and maybe buy another Ford. I had this done last year for 2 slow leakers on my Lumina, but they were about 4 years old. And it cost me $44 at Just Tires. Went a full year without air loss before I got new tires. Worth it not having my wife nag me every other day to check her tires, and use my lousy brad nailer tank to pump them up when needed. Alloy rims, but I've had the same issue with steel rims. Just "regular "stems. First thing I'd suspect with new tires is the new-fangled stems. But that might be all wrong. I'd fully expect the dealer to set this right on CE's car. And maybe banging on hot, bad Florida roads did disturb the rim seals. But that's should be Ford's problem, not his.
--Vic
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On 8/23/2011 3:15 PM, Tegger wrote:

give you different rates of leakage, even if it were a problem on all 4 rims. You might lose air, but I would think it would not be even across all 4. A problem with the valve stems during manufacturing might me a little more feasible. From something as simple as a batch of stems where the assembly process (either automated or manual) did not torque/tighten the metal plunger into the stem correctly (which is something the poster could easily check if he has a valve stem tool) to a manufacturing defect in the rubber itself (which is what was wrong with the batch that BJ's got in my previous posting) where it was gradually dry rotting on the inside of the rim, allowing the rate of air loss to gradually increase over time.)
But I agree - Just take it in...That's why he has the warranty...Shouldn't even have to think twice on a car this new.
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On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 14:58:49 -0400, "C. E. White"

and know EXACTLY what the problem is, and fall all over themselves fixing it for you. Then again, you MAY be living in the "real world" - where even if they HAD seen dozens of them, they'd deny it.
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I replaced some Michelins with good level Kumho's, and was very pleased with them. I did not at all find them to be of low quality.
Get your soap bubbles out and see if you can find where it is coming from.
The valves may be the answer.
I have also had tires leak VERY slowly at the bead....so slowly that the tire companies couldnt find the leak with soap. But, as the pressure drops, the sealing force decreases greatly and then the leaks become obvious. In a few cases, I have had to dismount the tire, sand down the bead area, and paint it. In a few cases, I have found moisture inside the wheel, and some corrosion where the wheel disc is welded to the rim.
These may be hard to find, but not impossible.
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SC Tom wrote:

A 2011 having this problem should have the first step of taking it back to the dealer and having them check it out. Having ALL of the tires drop evenly suggests a fault that should be covered.
--
Steve W.

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On 8/23/2011 8:18 AM, C. E. White wrote:

All the suggestions given to you are viable that you should check out, but I'd personally *lean* towards the valve stems...at least as the first and cheapest thing to go after. I had the same problem as you, although not with the OEM tires. every time I'd check, they all would be down. I let it go, and then one day I came out and one tire was completely flat. I took it off the car and brought it to a tire shop and they said the stem was no good. Put it back on the car and no more problems...from that tire. The other three kept losing air. So I took the car down to the shop and they replaced the remaining 3 stems and I haven't had a problem since. Funny thing was, the guy asked if I got the tires (set of 4 Michelin) from BJ's. Surprised, I said 'yes' and he said he had gotten a lot of people with the same issue in lately. He said they must have gotten a bad/cheap batch of stems. With yours, I suspect the car and tires are still under warranty? Bring it back to the dealer and let them take care of it. Heck, you may even get a new set of tires out of the deal...They might also have experianced a bunch of customers with the same issue as you...
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Maybe you have a practical joker?
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On 8/23/2011 8:18 AM, C. E. White wrote:

I'd bet the bead seals are leaking. You probably cooked off the factory sealer with your banzai road trip keeping the tires superheated so long. Have a good tire shop knock down all four, clean them and remount with the correct high-quality goop painted on the beads. I've had the same problem with several sets of cast aluminum wheels over the years. I'll never pay extra for fancy wheels, but since from my position on the food chain I can only buy used, I seldom get a choice.
--
aem sends...

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