Toyota and some others got caught lying (inflating their horsepower ratings)

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There was no "lying" involved. Just different interpretations of the older procedure. The Japanese manufacturers were testing with non-standard intake
and exhaust systems. The new procedures require you to use systems as restrictive as the ones actually used in the vehicles. You also have to use the recommended grade of fuel and lubricants. The new procedures did not seem to negatively affect US manufacturer's at all. The old procedure was supposed to reflect the "installed" horsepower, but not everything was spelled out exactly. Most American manufacturers adhered to the spirit of the procedures. The Japanese manufacturers were adhering to the exact wording. Nothing wrong with that, but it a typical Japanese thing. I can't tell you how many times I have gotten in a Japanese car and found it to be cramped, when, if you look at the interior measurements, it should be as large or larger than American and Europeans vehicles in the same class. The Japanese are very numbers oriented and do some weird things to make the numbers come out right - even if the reality is something else.
This is the second time the horsepower measurement procedures have changed in my memory. The first time was in the early 70s. Before that change, engines were tested with all the accessories (even water pumps) driven separately.
Ed

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On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:38:21 -0500, "C. E. White"

Yeah, it all depends on what the definition of "is" is. Right. C'mon, that kind of crap is dishonest, especially a lot of the others aren't pulling it.
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They were not caught lying because they were not lying. The old standard was loose and subject to interpretation (read the words in your link), the new one is tighter.
Anyone who thinks anybody buys a Camry or Corolla on the basis of horsepower is simple minded and probably should not be allowed to go outside alone for their own safety.

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----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.autos.gm,alt.autos.ford Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 11:22 PM Subject: Re: Toyota and some others got caught lying (inflating their horsepower ratings)

So why do Nissan and Toyota spend so much time telling me how much power their vehicles have? The press crapped all over the Ford 500 because it did not have enough "power," despite actually being faster than a Camry in 0-60 tests. Numbers do matter. Horsepower might not be the primary reason someone buys a Camry. but seeing claims that it has a more powerful engine than the immediate competitors might give you one more reason to pick the Camry. Or having the press dish a car because it does not have as much power as a Camry might convince you to not even look at the competitor (even if you really only want the 4 cylinder Camry). The inflated numbers fed the perception that the Japanese are better at building and designing cars. While I agree that Toyota was not "lying" about horsepower numbers, I am also certain that they knew that they were not measuring horsepower in the same way as most American manufacturers. They were taking advantage of a poorly defined portion of the procedure. While this might not have fooled you or me, it certainly was misleading for many people who assumed the horsepower numbers reflected the actual horsepower of the engine as installed in the car.
Ed
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The automotive press doesn't really care at all about the published power spec. They're all going to take the cars to New England Dragway and see what the cars will do with whatever fantasy number is under the hood. The numbers they compare are 0-60mph, 0-1320ft and 60-0mph.
The 2006 Camry LE with 2.4L I4 engine goes 0-60 just .3 secs slower than a 2006 Impala with the base 3.5L V6 engine. That Camry gets better fuel economy and costs less than the base Impala.
The automotive press notices things like that and says, "Why pay more?"
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Right on Ed. It is very noticeable how prominent HP ratings are in advertising today. Darn near every TV commercial that comes on really makes a point about the HP. From luxury cars to sedans. "The new xxx HP yyyyyyyyyy..." I suppose those poor dumb auto companies that pay for the ads, and the ad companies are just too dumb to know that HP rating isn't important to buyers. Hehe.
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:13:52 -0500, "C. E. White"

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Try this scenario. The headline says 'Ford and GM overstate the HP in most of their vehicles, Toyota and Honda do not.' Would the argument about it not making any difference, still be taking place? LOL
mike hunt

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I think many people buy it in part based on stated HP rating. If you are comparing vehicles that have somewhat similar cargo area, fuel economy or whatever the other factors are, then HP rating can be an important distinction for some.
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:22:06 -0800, "GLitwinski"

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