Toyota, GM, and Ford differences

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Next time I speak to my friend Lido I'll ask him ;)
mike hunt


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Just bull Mike. I've had Chrysler FWD 4 & 6 cyl vehicles from '79 to '01. They were all price competitive with similar RWD vehicles.
Recent Chrysler 300 vehicles are much more expensive than the mid sized cars they replaced. Economies of scale and similar cars on the same platform has always been with us, as even GM, Ford and Chrysler well know.
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Mike Hunter wrote:

And in 1985, Kmart was much larger than Wal-mart, while today it's 80% smaller.
What reason does GM have to exist? In other words, what can GM do better than anybody else, other than lobby the U.S. government for a bailout? Quality is good but not the best. Costs are high (even excluding health care and pension costs). Hours to produce each vehicle are high. Car designs are bad (but trucks are good). Corporate leadership is poor and clueless.
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Trucks are shit too. We see 4-year old chevys and GMCs rusted through around here.
Ever see a Canyon up close? Plain, ugly, crude.

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I owned a 95 S-10. It started rusting on the GAS TANK before I'd had it a year. Hinge pin on the driver's door, too.
Charles
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You forgot to say in my opinion, since the millions of the folks buying those millions of GM vehicles today disagree with your assesment. ;)
mike hunt

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Mike Hunter wrote:

I assume adults know how to distinguish fact (i.e., defect rates, hours needed to produce each vehicle) from opinion (i.e., GM designs and executives are bad), and the popularity of any brand of vehicles doesn't change opnions about it to facts or vice-versa.
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Is that the reason you believe Toyota is in fourth place behind GM, Ford and Chrysler in the US? Based on the many Toyotas I have owned I believe Toyota makes great vehicles, but I have found that they are generally over priced, under powered and no better than any other brand. The reason Toyota sells the number of vehicles in the US that it does is because buyer buy the vehicle they believe to be the best for them and their money. Obviously you buy the brand you buy for the same reason. The fact is more buyer choose GM over Ford, Ford over Chrysler, Chrysler over Toyota and Toyota over Honda. Whether you agree with the reasoning of those buyers, or not, that is only your opinion.
mike hunt

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Mike Hunter wrote:

I didn't give a reason just then but just an explanation of fact vs. opinion and also stated some facts that indicate how GM is inferior.

You said Toyotas are overpriced but that other people feel they're the best value for the money. Why do you and the other people differ on this criterion? Is it because the other people feel Toyotas are superior enough in other respects to make them better values despite higher price? I actually agree with you that Toyotas cost more than comparable GM and Ford vehicles.

Defect rates and the hours per vehicle are not opinions but facts, and GM, Ford, and Chrysler are inferior to Toyota, Honda, and Nissan in hours and inferior to Toyota and Honda in defect rates. On the other hand, GM cars being ugly or beautiful or the Honda Civic deserving or not deserving a "Car of the Year" award are opinions. So are Ford's, GM's, and Chrysler's beliefs that Toyota and Honda are the best car makers.
GM has about 15% of the world market, and some time in 2006 so will Toyota. Show me where GM or Ford is gaining on Toyota, either worldwide or in North America alone.
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Mike Hunter wrote:

Totally agree
They buy Toyota because it is best value for money, best customer care, best quality
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That is what I said, but far more buyers buy GM, Ford, and Chrysler vehicles because THEY obviously believe the brand THEY buy is the best value for money, best customer care, and best quality ;)
mike hunt

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Mike Hunter wrote:

It is good that we are in agreement
I have sometime misunderstood your posts

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I'm glad we can agree that more buyers buy GM, Ford, and Chrysler vehicles than Toyota because THEY obviously believe the brand THEY buy is the best value for money, best customer care, and best quality
mike hunt

because THEY obviously believe the brand THEY buy is the best value for money, best customer care, and best quality ;)

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"Sales at Chrysler, GM and Ford are falling as buyers defect to Toyota, the worlds second-biggest automaker, and other Asian rivals."
------------------------- GM, Ford December U.S. Auto Sales Fall; Toyota Gains
Jan. 4 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and DaimlerChrysler AG reported lower U.S. auto sales for a third straight month as Asian automakers led by Toyota Motor Corp. likely gained market share.
GM, the worlds largest automaker, said today its U.S. December sales fell 10 percent to 392,041 cars and trucks. Ford, the second-biggest U.S. carmaker, said its sales dropped 9 percent to 267,881, while DaimlerChrysler, No. 3 in the U.S., said Chrysler and Mercedes-Benz vehicle sales fell 2 percent to 220,641. Toyotas sales rose 8.2 percent to 203,279.
Cars and light trucks in the U.S. sold at an annual rate of 16.9 million units last month, down from 17.9 million a year earlier, according to a Bloomberg survey of analysts and economists. Sales in 2005 probably matched the 16.9 million of a year earlier.
The domestics have been suffering and the imports have been gaining, said Jeremy Anwyl, president of automotive data service Edmunds.com. The real question is: Whats going to happen in 2006?
Sales at Chrysler, GM and Ford are falling as buyers defect to Toyota, the worlds second-biggest automaker, and other Asian rivals. The declines are a reversal of gains in June and July, when U.S. carmakers offered employee discounts for all buyers. GM hasnt had a sales increase since July, and Ford reported lower U.S. sales each month since August.
Toyotas U.S. sales for all of 2005 rose 10 percent to 2.26 million vehicles, the biggest unit increase among all automakers.
General Motors
GMs December car sales fell 19 percent to 131,687 as models such as the Chevrolet Impala fell 22 percent and the Chevy Monte Carlo declined 36 percent.
Light-truck sales declined 4.7 percent as Chevrolet Suburban sport-utility vehicles fell 36 percent and the Chevy Tahoe dipped 12 percent. Sales of large pickups such as the Chevy Silverado rose 1.7 percent.
For the year, GM reported a 4 percent decline to 4.52 million vehicles.
Chrysler sales dropped 5 percent to 189,449 in December, the Stuttgart, Germany-based company said in a statement. The U.S. unit still posted its second straight annual U.S. sales gain. Mercedes-Benz sales in December increased 17 percent to 31,192, bringing them to a record for the year.
Chrysler started offering a debit card with $2,400 toward gasoline purchases along with free maintenance for two years and extended warranties on most 2005 and 2006 models after October sales fell 3.1 percent. Chrysler today extended the program until Jan. 9, when it will announce new incentives, spokesman Kevin McCormick said.
Ford
Sales of Dearborn, Michigan-based Fords F-Series pickup trucks, the best-selling line of vehicles in the U.S., fell 6.2 percent to 89,491. The company sold 901,463 F-Series in 2005, a 4 percent decline, while still hitting its target of selling at least 900,000 of the vehicles.
Nissan Motor Co., Japans No. 2 carmaker, sold 91,253 cars and trucks last month, down 1.1 percent from a year earlier, Jed Connelly, the automakers head of U.S. sales, said in an interview.
For all of 2005, Tokyo-based Nissan sold 1.076 million vehicles to U.S. drivers, up 9.1 percent from 2004 and the first time the company has exceeded 1 million units in a calendar year, Connelly said by phone from Nissans Canton, Mississippi, assembly plant.
Honda
Honda Motor Co.s U.S. December sales fell 3.3 percent to 132,800 cars and trucks. Cars posted a 16 percent decline, led by a 31 percent drop in Accord sedans, while light-truck sales rose 14.1 percent on an 18 percent gain in Pilot SUV sales and the addition of its Ridgeline pickup.
The Asians continue to stay the course, said David Lucas, an analyst with Autodata Corp.
A rise in gasoline prices to records last year helped cars regain market share against pickup trucks and SUVs for the first time in 25 years, benefiting Asian companies that sell smaller, more fuel-efficient vehicles, said John Murphy, an analyst with Merrill Lynch & Co.
GMs 2006 earnings per share forecast was cut by JPMorgan Chase & Co. today to 70 cents from $2.35 because planned cuts in manufacturing capacity and health-care costs wont have a significant effect on results until 2007.
Sales at Detroit-based GM, which along with Ford has depended on trucks and SUVs to boost profit, declined 3.8 percent through November, while Fords fell 4.3 percent.
Chevrolet
GMs Chevrolet ended 2005 as the biggest-selling nameplate in the U.S., with a total of 2.67 million vehicles sold. It was the first time since 1986 that Chevrolet reached No. 1, beating out Fords namesake Ford division with 2.65 million. Chevrolets TrailBlazer also took over from Fords Explorer as the top- selling SUV.
GMs total market share through November was down 1.3 percentage points from a year earlier to 26.2 percent. Ford dropped 1.2 percentage points to 18.6 percent.
Septembers hurricanes and $3 a gallon gasoline served as a turning point in consumer preference, Murphy wrote in a Dec. 22 research report. If this trend continues in 06, the Big Three, which rely heavily on light trucks for the majority of their sales, could experience accelerated market share losses.
Dubious
General Motors, which lost $4.8 billion in North America in the first nine months of 2005, had its credit rating reduced to below investment grade, or junk, last year as sales declined. Standard & Poors, in lowering GMs rating a fourth time in 2005, last month said falling sales of large SUVs made it dubious that the carmaker can restore North American profit with new models in 2006.
GM Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner said on Dec. 15 that even if the large SUV market doesnt recover in 2006, GM has a huge ownership base that will buy its next-generation models. GM will get a profit and sales boost by mid-2006 when redesigned vehicles are on the market, said Joseph Amaturo, an analyst with Calyon Securities in New York.
Global Insights Lindland said GMs market share will fall to 25.2 percent in 2006, and Fords will drop to 17.6 percent. Toyotas share will climb to 13.9 percent, allowing it to surpass Chrysler as third-biggest in U.S. sales. The market share for domestic automakers will end 2005 at 58 percent, down from 58.7 percent in 2004, and may decline to 56 percent in 2006, Lindland said.
Falling Sales
Robert Barry, an analyst with Goldman, Sachs & Co., estimated automakers can sell 16.8 million cars and trucks to U.S. consumers in 2006 as long as they lower prices aggressively.
While December was likely the biggest month since July, when GM, Ford and Chrysler offered employee prices to consumers, year-end incentives werent enough to push sales above year-ago levels.
Manufacturers incentives through Dec. 15 fell 8 percent from a year earlier, while dealer incentives rose 13 percent, according to Art Spinella, president of CNW Marketing Research in Bandon, Oregon.
Auto sales are expressed on an annualized basis to reflect seasonal shifts in buying patterns. Last years monthly seasonally adjusted rates ranged from 14.7 million in October to 20.9 million in July, according to Bloomberg data. Automakers have sold an average of 17 million vehicles annually in the U.S. this decade.
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Indeed GM and Ford are down and Toyota is up. But both GM and Ford as well as Chrysler are still out selling Toyota in big number in the US. The three top selling vehicle in the US are Ford, GM and Chrysler trucks. On the other hand Toytota trucks are just a blip of total vehicls sales. The number one selling vehicle, the F150, sold at a rate more than twice that of the number four selling vehicle, the Toyota Camry, albeit the nubmer one selling car. When it comes to cars contrary to what Toyota and our friend in the Toyota NG would have us believe both GM and Ford sold, not only more vehicles, but more cars as well. Just not in the same brand name and/or model. The fact is the Chevrolet Divison of GM alone sold more than all of Toyota, Lexus and Sion combined to take the number one brand spot for Ford after 19 years. GM sold far more than Toyota Motors, as did Ford Motor Company and Chrysler Corp.
mike hunt

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Mike, you've gone past your "rule of six".

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I know, but I wasted a half dozen in another futile effort to enlighten our fried DIZZY ;)
mike hunt

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Top-posting troll Mike Hunter wrote:

1) Are you trying to gang three companies up against one, top-poster?
2) As usual, you are wrong. It's much more complex than that. For example, GM has a much broader range of products than does Toyota. This means their product is "just right" for more people. This is a separate issue from "value, care, and quality". Also, it's a well-known fact that millions of Americans will only buy American, irrespective of of which manufacturer offers the best "value, care, and quality" package.
Don't you tire of being wrong, troll?
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I'll not waste time on your stupid logic, reread the post it is self explanatory. Buyer buy more of every completive model of GM and Ford vehicles rather than the one sold by Toyota with the exception of the Camry and they do so in big numbers.
mike hunt

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Top-posting troll Mike Hunter wrote:

And wrong, as I explained.

Not true, globally, nitwit.

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