Tundra vs. F150

Which engine in the Ford and which in the Tundra? And are you just comapring by feel or actual measurement? For 2010 the F150s are getting a new more powerful engine option - a 6.2L V-8 (400 hp @ 5,000 rpm, 400 ft-lb @ 3500 rpm). The Tundra has an available 5.7L engine (381 hp @ 5600 rpm, 401 ft-lb @ 3600 rpm). I am not sure why anyone needs these gas suckers in a truck, but if you want more useless power they have them. It seems to me these are engines designed for ads, not for a real world work truck (or as I call - the Chevrolet ride around truck style engine). If you want a truck that actually needs this sort of power, you should get an F250/350 with a diesel.

Ed

my f150 is a 4.6L, and my tundra at work is a 4.7. My next persoal truck will be a 5.4 (or a 5.7 or a 5.3... depending which route i go).

I still really like the feel, and styling of an F150, with the solid frame, and ability to tow.

I have yet to talk to anyone who hauls with a tundra, but i am considering getting a 5th wheel travel trailer... anyone who hauls iwth the F150 5.4 says at times they could use the extra power.

As far as the diesel goes, I really don't need a truck that heavy, or an engine with that torque. If i had the cash, I would take one, but I can't justify it. Its the repairs on the things i'm scared of. Anything in a diesel seems to cost at least $3000 a visit to your local shop.

Some things that folks desparately need to remember when considering a diesel (specifically a Power Stroke since these are the ones I mostly work on)..

The exhaust aftertreatments...... particularly the EGR valve and variable geometery turbocharger... It doesn't take much idling or even low speed/light duty operation for wet stacking to become a concern. Add in the urban myth that "diesels love to idle" and you have some real opportunity for concerns. Idle a 6.4L at -20C and the engine coolant temperature will fall below 60C. When the engine is this cold, the fuel cannot totally react... what doesn't make it past the rings into the sump will either gum up the works or plug off the diesel particulate filter. FWIW, the 6.0 can react quite badly to extended idling, as well.

I don't think that there is any secret about the 6.4s lust for fuel... these things love the giggle-juice. Don't get me started on programmers...

Come oil change time... well... 14 litres of oil and a fairly spendy filter. Oh, you can get aftermarket filters for the 6.0 and 6.4 (they are the same oil filter), but some of the aftermarket brands have proven to be somewhat inadequate (read that as too short to close the antidrain back valve). Fuel filters every 15K miles.. Maintenance costs on a diesel are much higher than those on a gas engine.

Even at purchase time... if one is buying a new truck... the diesel engine in a Ford truck is something close to an $8000 option.

The 6.7 diesel that we expect to see in our store about March is going to take complexity to a whole new level... still has variable geometry in the turbo... still has EGR... now we're adding urea injection... and no formal training is being offered yet (though I understand that there was at least one 'pilot' training course at KTP in the last while). I expect the newer federal emission requirements for diesel engines might push the option closer to $10K.

Don't get me wrong...I would buy a diesel in a heartbeat - if my driving circumstance could justify it. But, for 49 weeks a year, I live a life of cold starts, short trips and extreme cold winter weather. Only 3 weeks of my year is what you could call "diesel friendly".. To this end, there is a very good chance that my next truck will be a 6.8L V10. - though I understand that there may some questions about the availability of the V10 after the introduction of the 6.2.

As for getting a big motor in a truck... It might be just me but I can't see the sense in getting a truck that can'tt comfortably haul it's intended load. My own SuperCrew has only the 4.6 and I regret that decision every time I hook up to my travel trailer (back when I bought it, the deal was just too sweet not to get it... 8^(

Which brand truck to choose should be a no brainer, look at which one sells best because so many buyers believe they are the best truck for the money.

The Ford F150 has not only been the best selling truck for 32 years, it has been the best selling vehicle for 32 years. The Tundra has never even made a dent in US truck sales.

If you still decide that you want a Tundra go to one of the Manheim auto Auctions. You can find a slew of brand new Tundra selling for as low as $25,000 because they are selling so badly.

Well, GM sells more pickups than any other company. So perhaps that is the best truck. They sell across two brands (GMC and Chevy), and sometimes others (like Caddy and Hummer, which they don't own anymore).

They've made more than a dent, but not much more.

The people who had to pay $3000.00+ to have the spark plugs changed on their 3 valve gas engines say hi.

Of course Ford eventually said 'oh shit' and developed a technique where now it may only cost $1000.00 to change those spark plugs.

Semantics. While it is true that GM sells more trucks, but more buyers chose the F150. Same is true of cars, more buyers chose GM cars but Toyota sells more than any particular vehicle with one brand name on the grill when they buy a Camry.

Semantics? Big deal. GM sells a nearly identical truck under two brands. So GM still sells more pickups.

And you have argued that GMs are better vehicles because GM sells more vehicles in the US than any other maker. So, I guess you're trying to have it both ways.

Oh, and you're wrong about GM selling more cars in the US than Toyota. Toyota sold about 1,279,314 cars in the first 11 months of 2009 vs.

1,169,975 cars for GM. The figures come from the Dec. 1, 2009 press releases from GM and Toyota.

So try to keep up with the times and keep your arguments consistant.

Jeff

I understood that very, as is clear from my post. I also was adding to the discussion. There is more to truck sales than brand. People understand that GMC and Chevy trucks are nearly identical.

In addition, I showed that you're wrong when you say GM makes more cars than Toyota. That, sadly, will be even more true when GM stops selling Pontiacs, Saabs, Hummers and Saturns (it still has some residual sales of these brands).

Jeff

Ya right

I am glad we agree, then.

If I am incorrect, please prove it.

Jeff

The newer 3V heads don't have the same problems as the 04/05 3V heads. Even for the 04/05 engines, the problem is not as bad as some have claimed. Local independent does it for $350 and says with the right tools there is not a problem even if the outer shield separates. He won't guarantee the $350 but says he hasn't had to go higher yet. The tools for handling broken plugs are less than $70. Seems like a non-problem to me. I think mostly the problem was the result of minimally trained parts changers plowing blindly ahead without the proper training, or even bothering to read the Ford service bulletins that described the proper technique for removing the plugs from the 04/05 heads. And this is a once per 100,000 mile expense (or less, since I know one guy that still had the original plugs at 180,000 miles). Seem like less of a problem that having your frame rust out or you camshafts seize, or watching your pick-up box quizzer like a bowl of jello.

Ed

I assume you are talking about the Toyota boxes. I have followed two Nissans that do the exact same thing. Just riding on a smooth pavement with some small cracks going across it I've seen the boxes do the dance. I have never seen any other trucks do that but the Toyotas and now the Nissans.

Too soon t tell.

The problem can be as easy or as bad as it turns out too be. No way to predict it. You may get all 8 with minimal fuss, you may have 5 separate and on those 5, you may trash 2 extraction tools.

You're okay with $350 labor to change 8 spark plugs? On an engine where the spark plugs aren't really all that hard to access?

I've been smoking for 42 years and I don't have cancer yet.

The tools for handling broken plugs that shouldn't break to begin with are about $70.

The fact that there is a special extraction tool indicates that there is a problem.

You DO realize that the TSB is/was in response to the problem, right? After the fact, right? And the fact that Ford had to issue the TSB and admonish to follow it exactly and that the technique and tools described in that TSB were not previously included in the service manual (nor tools available) indicates that there was a not previously considered problem, so plowing parts changers is a bit undeserved don'tcha think?

Or more. Ford sure as hell hopes it doesn't rear its ugly head until the truck is out of warranty...

I've had those $26 dollar plugs crap out at 60,000 miles.

You mean the Tacoma's where Toyota stepped up and paid 3X blue book value? Or just about any 90s Ford around here where the radius arm brackets are swiss cheese, the rear spring hangers match and the oil pan looks like slag?

Leave GM out of this.

Like my 85 F-150?

That is one of the reasons Ford sells more F150s in a few months than Tundra and Titan sell in a year. ;)

its all in the frame, which is what worries me about toyota and nissan. they build superior quarter tons, noone can question that, but the fullsize I still tend to lean on the big guys