U.S. market: Toyota is now #2 - too bad, Ford

Page 1 of 3  
"Toyota Passes Ford As 2nd-Biggest Auto Seller in US in 2007, Ending Ford's 75-Year Lock"
AP article: http://xrl.us/Toyota2

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I don't think the part about Ford being the 2nd biggest Auto Seller in the US for 75 years is true. I think Chrysler (Chrysler + Dodge + Plymouth + DeSoto) actually sold more cars than Ford (Ford + Mercury + Lincoln) in the late 40's (less than 60 years ago). And as usual it depends on what you include in Ford sales. They aren't including Mazda sales in the Ford totals - even though a significant number of Mazda vehicles sold in the US are built by Ford for Mazda (small pick-ups and Tributes) and Ford effectively controls Mazda (even if they don't 100% "own" Mazda).
2007 Toyota US Sales (Toyota + Lexus + Scion) = 2,620,825 2007 Ford US Sales (Ford+Mercury+Lincoln+Volvo+Land Rover+Jaguar) 2,559,133 2007 Mazda US Sales (Mazda Only) = 296,110 2007 Ford + Mazda = 2,855243 If you assume that 35% of Mazda Sales are really Ford Sales (Ford owns 35+% of Mazda), then I think you could argue that Ford Sales were 2,662,771
If anything, the only manufacturer that truly had a good December was Mazda, their US sales were up by over 25% in December (compared to last year) and they had a 10% gain for the year - better than any other manufacturer in the US. At least something related to Ford is doing something right.
Look at it another way - Ford had virtually no new products for 2007 (unless you want to count renaming the Five Hundred , Freestyle, and Zephyr) and sales decreased by 9%. Toyota had multiple new products (Camry, RAV4, Tundra) and only managed to increase sales by 3% for the year, and actually saw a decline in December.
Ed
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Yeah, you sort of expected that from Ford. It's engineering team has been anemic for a long time. The F-series and Mustang are the only real new Fords lately, the rest are mostly Mazdas and Volvos. GM, in its turnaround, can come up with new technologies in their sleep. And then you look at how Ford had to squeeze out a new engine or tranny. Maybe that's why they're all under "new management." ;)

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 23:00:03 +0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio

Why do you hate America?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ashton Crusher wrote:

Why does saying Ford is #3 now show that one hates America? Are you suggesting that Americans should put up with second rate cars?
Besides, they build many of their cars in America.
Jeff
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
What do you mean by second rate cars? Many recent buyers surveys show consumer thing some of the vehicle Ford builds are better than those sold by Toyota If you believe if one brand sells more than another they must be better. In that case you must believe GM vehicles are better than those from Toyota since GM sell more in the US.
What he means by hating America, when one buys from a foreign company, that imports most of what they sell in the US then claims they build some in the US when in fact they only assemble some in the US of mostly imported parts and materials. To make maters worse they take away good paying jobs that offer great benefits and replace them with lower paying jobs that offer much less desirable benefits, building cars that cost more then take all of the profits out of the US free of US federal corporate income taxes.
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mike hunt wrote:

I mean cars that are not as good as the cars made by Toyota and Honda. Having more competition from both overseas and from within the US forces the Michigan 3 to build better cars. And, cars built by Toyota and Honda in the past have been shown to have more long-term reliability than many build by the Michigan-3.

I don't believe that. There are many factors that go into the decision to buy a car. For those who lease cars or trade them in often, long-term reliability is not an issue at all.

Or that Toyota cars are best because Toyota sells more vehicles around the world than anyone else.

Toyota buys $28 billion worth of goods and services in the US.

The pay that workers get for Toyota is similar (although a little less) than what the Michigan-3 workers get. However, Toyota is building plants in the US. The Michigan-3 are closing plants. The big-3 also offer much better pensions, which will be decreased greatly the workers if their pension plans go belly up.
The Toyota subsidies in the US are US corporations that pay state, local and US taxes. Some states and local governments chose to give Toyota tax incentives to move to their jurisdictions, but they would have done the same thing for the Michigan 3, Dell or Google, too.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mike hunt wrote:

Ford quality is inferior, on average, not only for its cars but also its current and former employees, as you've just demonstrated.

That's stupid salesman talk.

And that's stupid drunk talk.
Ford has nobody to blame but itself for its problems.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

sold by

that
the
parts
I was a toy mechanic, and trust me, they are no better. Where I worked they often did unscrupulous things, where the customer never new of a problem.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"razz" ...

Um, I don't think you can blame a whole corporation for the actions of some unscrupulous individuals. It's not the Ford mechanics that screwed over the customers, for the most part. It was the product that Ford was selling that jerked them around.
Blaming it on dirty-dealing mechanics is like blaming the entire country for the actions of some individuals. If what the individual is doing is wrong, *and* is the policy of the organization, then you can say it's a bad government. But if you have deviants to official policy, it's an entirely different matter.
By the way, I got jerked around at LARRY MILLER TOYOTA in Arizona, but I sure as hell don't blame the Toyota corporation. That's just, well, illogical.
Natalie
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
No, I'm talking about Toy corp telling the dealership to keep things hush. I'm not saying the others are better then them, I'm just de mything the Toy reputation, as most people refuse to believe that toy is a superior product than the others, which I know is a bogus claim, and so do many other mechanics.

show
company,
in
problem.
some
the
that
for
wrong,
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
razz wrote:

Then why does Toyota get more money for its cars than GM and Ford? Why do Toyotas have better long-term reliability than GM and Ford?

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
They don't and never had longer reliability. That is just great marketing and biased reporting. How often do you hear about the great slant six Chrysler made, or the 2.2 ford made, you could practically run them with no oil and never kill them. Was it major headlines about the sludge problems in toys? That was another from corp. that was told to our dealership to keep as quite as possible.

over
country
entirely
I
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
razz wrote:

You need to stop topposting. It makes it hard to follow the thread.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news03/jdpower.html
http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/pressrelease.aspx?id 07130
Toyota and Honda at near the top of the lists.
Jeff

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Why? Don't have the smarts to follow a post, I have no problems following posts.

those
also
some
imported
worked
of
selling
but
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
razz wrote:

It's easier to follow a group of posts when the comments are inline instead of top posting. It is considered proper netiquette.
http://www.usenet.com.au/about/content.php?page%&sub_id &
To me, it comes down to showing respect for the people who read your posts and showing that what you have to say is worthwhile reading. Two things that you have yet to show.
Jeff

<...>
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Wickeddoll wrote:
<..>

Off course, this isn't a problem if you trim the post properly.
Jeff
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Jeff" ...

Not if you want someone who hadn't been following the conversation to know wtf you're talking about.
Natalie
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Hers a clue. The paragraph that starts with the one less than symbol is the last posted response

those
also
some
imported
worked
of
selling
but
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.