I don't think the part about Ford being the 2nd biggest Auto Seller in
the US for 75 years is true. I think Chrysler (Chrysler + Dodge +
Plymouth + DeSoto) actually sold more cars than Ford (Ford + Mercury +
Lincoln) in the late 40's (less than 60 years ago). And as usual it
depends on what you include in Ford sales. They aren't including Mazda
sales in the Ford totals - even though a significant number of Mazda
vehicles sold in the US are built by Ford for Mazda (small pick-ups
and Tributes) and Ford effectively controls Mazda (even if they don't
100% "own" Mazda).
2007 Toyota US Sales (Toyota + Lexus + Scion) = 2,620,825
2007 Ford US Sales (Ford+Mercury+Lincoln+Volvo+Land Rover+Jaguar) 2,559,133
2007 Mazda US Sales (Mazda Only) = 296,110
2007 Ford + Mazda = 2,855243
If you assume that 35% of Mazda Sales are really Ford Sales (Ford owns
35+% of Mazda), then I think you could argue that Ford Sales were
If anything, the only manufacturer that truly had a good December was
Mazda, their US sales were up by over 25% in December (compared to
last year) and they had a 10% gain for the year - better than any
other manufacturer in the US. At least something related to Ford is
doing something right.
Look at it another way - Ford had virtually no new products for 2007
(unless you want to count renaming the Five Hundred , Freestyle, and
Zephyr) and sales decreased by 9%. Toyota had multiple new products
(Camry, RAV4, Tundra) and only managed to increase sales by 3% for the
year, and actually saw a decline in December.
Yeah, you sort of expected that from Ford. It's engineering team has
been anemic for a long time. The F-series and Mustang are the only
real new Fords lately, the rest are mostly Mazdas and Volvos. GM, in
its turnaround, can come up with new technologies in their sleep. And
then you look at how Ford had to squeeze out a new engine or tranny.
Maybe that's why they're all under "new management." ;)
What do you mean by second rate cars? Many recent buyers surveys show
consumer thing some of the vehicle Ford builds are better than those sold by
Toyota If you believe if one brand sells more than another they must be
better. In that case you must believe GM vehicles are better than those
from Toyota since GM sell more in the US.
What he means by hating America, when one buys from a foreign company, that
imports most of what they sell in the US then claims they build some in the
US when in fact they only assemble some in the US of mostly imported parts
and materials. To make maters worse they take away good paying jobs that
offer great benefits and replace them with lower paying jobs that offer much
less desirable benefits, building cars that cost more then take all of the
profits out of the US free of US federal corporate income taxes.
I mean cars that are not as good as the cars made by Toyota and Honda.
Having more competition from both overseas and from within the US forces
the Michigan 3 to build better cars. And, cars built by Toyota and Honda
in the past have been shown to have more long-term reliability than many
build by the Michigan-3.
I don't believe that. There are many factors that go into the decision
to buy a car. For those who lease cars or trade them in often, long-term
reliability is not an issue at all.
Or that Toyota cars are best because Toyota sells more vehicles around
the world than anyone else.
Toyota buys $28 billion worth of goods and services in the US.
The pay that workers get for Toyota is similar (although a little less)
than what the Michigan-3 workers get. However, Toyota is building plants
in the US. The Michigan-3 are closing plants. The big-3 also offer much
better pensions, which will be decreased greatly the workers if their
pension plans go belly up.
The Toyota subsidies in the US are US corporations that pay state, local
and US taxes. Some states and local governments chose to give Toyota tax
incentives to move to their jurisdictions, but they would have done the
same thing for the Michigan 3, Dell or Google, too.
Um, I don't think you can blame a whole corporation for the actions of some
unscrupulous individuals. It's not the Ford mechanics that screwed over the
customers, for the most part. It was the product that Ford was selling that
jerked them around.
Blaming it on dirty-dealing mechanics is like blaming the entire country for
the actions of some individuals. If what the individual is doing is wrong,
*and* is the policy of the organization, then you can say it's a bad
government. But if you have deviants to official policy, it's an entirely
By the way, I got jerked around at LARRY MILLER TOYOTA in Arizona, but I
sure as hell don't blame the Toyota corporation. That's just, well,
No, I'm talking about Toy corp telling the dealership to keep things hush.
I'm not saying the others are better then them, I'm just de mything the Toy
reputation, as most people refuse to believe that toy is a superior product
than the others, which I know is a bogus claim, and so do many other
They don't and never had longer reliability. That is just great marketing
and biased reporting. How often do you hear about the great slant six
Chrysler made, or the 2.2 ford made, you could practically run them with no
oil and never kill them. Was it major headlines about the sludge problems in
toys? That was another from corp. that was told to our dealership to keep as
quite as possible.
You need to stop topposting. It makes it hard to follow the thread.
Toyota and Honda at near the top of the lists.
It's easier to follow a group of posts when the comments are inline
instead of top posting. It is considered proper netiquette.
To me, it comes down to showing respect for the people who read your
posts and showing that what you have to say is worthwhile reading. Two
things that you have yet to show.
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