Underbody AC lines for rear air

Page 1 of 2  
couldn't find a Usenet group about auto AC. It's an Aerostar so I'll ask here. The lines are rusted through. No one has replacement that I can find.
Having some custom made is ridiculously expensive. Can anyone explain to me why I could not fix this with hose barbs and clamps instead of crimps and those damned springlock connectors?
I could just buy tubing at home depot , clamp some barrier hose on and be good wouldn't one think?
-- Mighty
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Do you have any idea what kind of pressures an A/C system operates at? You also have to use materials that won't be degraded by the refrigerant and oil in the system. Call around to the salvage yards and see if they have the line set off a wrecked AS.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yes checked salvage they ALL seem to be horribly rusted. But maybe if I expand my search beyond the rust belt where I live. I am aware of the pressures, typically 300psi or less on the high side. I would not use tubing that was any less strong or of a different material than what the factory put in there. Aluminium or on my van steel. I was more interested to know if the barbs and clamps of old leak with R134a as opposed to the old R12 which they seemed to work fine with. But I can't imagine a springlock connector not leaking where a solid clamp would. Maybe I'm missing something. Thanks for the reply.
-- Mighty
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

This is where I get most of my used parts.
http://www.lkqcorp.com/home/home.asp
They have yards nationwide and can ship parts from one yard to another. I don't know if they inventory line sets, but they do have other A/C parts. The phone call is free, can't hurt to call and ask. I had a Crown Vic engine shipped from Memphis to SC, no extra charge.

If you had rust problems before, I wouldn't go back to stock steel. I'd probably opt for stainless, but then you're talking $$$. If you can only find an OEM replacement line set, there may be a way to coat them with something to protect them from rust, but not living in a rust belt area, I have no experience in doing that.

The leak problems are almost always caused by bad O-rings. They seem to be the weak spot, especially on Fords. Once you get a good set of O-rings in there, you generally don't have to worry about them again. Most of the problems I've seen are from shoddy 134a conversions where all the O-rings were not replaced.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
If you had rust problems before, I wouldn't go back to stock steel. I'd probably opt for stainless, but then you're talking $$$.
If you know anyone that works at a local construction site, they can probably smuggle you out some stainless for free.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Try 400 PSI plus for R-12. You could use hoses and clamps if the tubing has rolled lock-rings at the ends to work like fitting barbs, otherwise the hoses and clamps will blow right off the ends.
SAE Flare or double-flare can be done in the field, but you need to buy a quality flare tool. And the hard part would be adapting between Flare or O-ring fittings and the Springlock. If you can modify the other end and use new hose, Aeroquip has weld-on flare tips for many types of hard line.
If it wasn't for the vibration fatigue failure of hard copper lines, I'd go get a refrigeration lineset and run it on the same route. (In other words, don't try, it will fail early.)
You might have to go find the right size steel tubing that you can find fittings for, get a tube bending tool, and start duplicating. Swage the ends (or go one size smaller) and weld the tips of the old lines on the new, then paint and wrap the heck out of the new lines before you mount them.
--<< Bruce >>--
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The copper lines may fail earlier than steel would, but that's years down the road. We had copper refrigerant lines on our waveguide cooling /drying system and oil lines on our primary generators when I was in the Air Force, and those lines were years old without any failures. I think you have the right idea about using flare fittings. It shouldn't be that big of a deal to braze on a male fitting to the steel lines that are still good and use female flares on the copper lines. Don't see any real reason why it wouldn't work.
SC Tom
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:38:29 -0700, Bruce L. Bergman

Yeah, I would have welded barbs to the ends of the tube.

Now this is a excellent idea!! I looked at the reuseable aeroquip fittings that are for their stanless braided lines and actually used them on my '92 Cherokee (still working great) but they only come in o-ring style fittings AFAIK. But flare fittiings are a great idea.

I thought briefly of using house style copper plumbing but did not know the pressure limits, didn't even think about fatigue. It pays to ask :0

-- Mighty
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

There's no MVAC usenet group, but there is a great internet forum: www.autoacforum.com
This is a common problem on many vehicles with rear AC. One common solution is to get a line set for the same vehicle without rear AC. You lose the rear air, but if the cost of replacing the rear lines is prohibitive....
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I could just buy tubing at home depot , clamp some barrier hose on and be good wouldn't one think?
Actually PVC line would work. I have a friend who replaced his lines with hard PVC tubing.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:12:09 -0700, "Rick Cooper"

Too scary. I think it would soften from the hot compressed high side and burst.
-- Mighty
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

PVC pipe for refrigerant? Hell No! It's only rated for 125 PSI with water, and not at all for gases - the pipe tends to shatter when it bursts under gas pressure, people keep trying to use it for shop compressed air and it fails every time sooner or later.
And if you are in front of it when it shatters, you can be in a world of hurt or even dead...
Now you can use steel lines and slide PVC hose over them for cushioning and rust prevention, but if moisture gets between the steel line and the plastic hose you'll have the same problems.
A home refrigeration copper lineset would work and handle the pressures involved, and the insulation on the suction line would be a bonus for efficiency. (You would need some split corrugated loom tubing to pad and protect the liquid line.) Or you could get "HVAC Class" ultra heavy-wall copper pipe and bend it to fit - that's the stuff that comes in 20' sticks pre-cleaned on the inside and plugged.
But copper does work harden and crack eventually when flexed, and you would have to anchor it down every inch of the way (with padded clamps) to make sure it doesn't move.
--<< Bruce >>--
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mighty wrote:

http://www.fmsiinc.com/ac/aluminum-tube-repair.htm
bob
----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

WOW. Neat idea! Their after picture does not show how they dealt with the springlock at the end. -- Mighty
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Are u sure about the price of having them made? Check around a bit. I think you are goin to have problems with clamps, u really need crimped on fittings.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Considerations.... the low side hose will rarely (if ever) see more than 100 PSI - The hottest it gets where I live is about 85ish F... I have no idea of what static pressures can hit in warmer climes.... With the AC operating, low side pressure will be more like 20 - 30 PSI
Conversely, high side pressures can reach as high as 400ish PSI depending on temperature and humidity.... (250 to 300 is the norm for a hot day for me). This is where home grown repairs will meet their match.... Trying to go too cheap on the repair might have you wasting the price difference on a self created hobby...

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I added rear air to a Blazer years ago. Just bought some rubber AC hose of the appropriate size and ran it from the engine compartment to the rear evaporator and connected it with barbed fittings and clamps.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Blazer years ago. Just bought some rubber AC

I tried to tell these clowns you could use rubber or PVC and they said it would explode from the pressure. The drugs they're taking must be causing a lot of water on the brain.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 3 Aug 2008 17:27:11 -0700, "Rick Cooper"

Excuse me, but you are wrong. Rubber High-Pressure Refrigerant Hose is not just "rubber or PVC hose" - it is specially made to handle the product at the normal operating pressures of 500 PSI. And the stuff is not cheap, even in bulk.
Gates Polar-Seal Hose - Comes in ID's of 5/16", 13/32", 1/2", 5/8". http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure 36&location_ida97 You have to register to bring up the Hydraulic Hose PDF catalogs. They have the fittings and O-Rings for the Ford Spring-Lock connectors, and connectors with service ports built in.
You could use standard steel or aluminum tube for the replacement lines, and the "flareless" hose fittings (Looks like "Swagelok" ring style) and a short chunk of Polar-Seal hose to transition at each end - but that's making more places to leak.
You could build a specialty business selling conversion fittings so people could use standard steel brake tubing to make replacement rear air refrigerant lines, but there isn't that much volume of sales. If the solution costs too much they'll just clamp off the lines to the rear air and convert to front only.
--<< Bruce >>--
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
they are just stuck in their toddler tantrum ... never grew up in a world of love.
their world is one of fear, judgment, expectation, shame, criticism ... raised by Grim Pills doing their Jonestown Koolaid of lies lies lies.
See Bubble Boy in the White House for another example of this if you like.
The Grim Pills are killing US.
sumbuddie wear blind sea
:/
in article qTElk.3756$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe06.iad, SC Tom at snipped-for-privacy@tom.net wrote on 8/4/08 8:03 AM:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.