We Could Build a Coal-to-Gasoline Conversion Plant

Page 6 of 6  


But you would still be an idiot! I think 'people-owned' is significant... Aint no crooks in them communes, no-sir!
Life is so simple for the simple minded...
--
Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
No need to wait, the President has already provided 100 million in federal money to do almost exactly that, as part of his plan to reduce our dependency on imported crude. It is not gasoline from coal but clean burning, low sulfur, diesel fuel.
A plant is being built as we speak in Schuylkill County Pennsylvania that will convert coal calm (waste coal) into fuel to be used by the state of Pennsylvania. Eastern Pennsylvania has the world largest reserves of clean burning low sulfur anthracite coal. Using new coal would be more costly than using culm. Even producing diesel fuel from waste coal cost much more the conventional fuel oil and much more than it would coat to produce gasoline. The only thing that is making that plant cost effective is the Company has been given a ten year tax exemption, under Pennsylvania's Keystone development plan that is designed to return "brown fields," polluted areas, into tax producing lands. In addition the diesel fuel will not be taxed by the state of federal government. The current federal tax is .185c per gallon and the Pa state tax is .26C The sad part is even at $70 a barrel gasoline is still so cheap as a motor fuel that crude will need to go over $100 a barrel before ANY of the alternate fuel will cost less and can be sold at a profit.
Search "The Bud Angst Report Blog Archive PA Leads With Coal-to-Oil Solution To Address Energy Needs"
mike hunt
wrote:

begin 666 The Bud Angst Report Blog Archive PA Leads With Coal-to-Oil Solution To Address Energy Needs.URL M6TEN=&5R;F5T4VAO<G1Cq=#0I54DP]:'1T<#HO+W=W=RYBaA;F=S="YC ,;VTO/W ]-3$U#0H` ` end
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:>>>>> The People of the United States could build a people-owned coal-to-oil>>> conversion plant>>>>> I'm waiting, Mr. President. >>> But you would still be an idiot!>> I think 'people-owned' is significant... Aint no crooks in them communes,>> no-sir!>>>> Life is so simple for the simple minded...>>>>>> -->> Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price>> you pay..DEAL with it!>>>
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Did you really say 100 million? 100 million is only 1/5 of what that Exxon Mobil guy will take home as a pension. FUNNY, we are talking about the whole of the U.S., Canada, the world to be a better place to live and work. The GOV, needs to spend a couple more bucks to put these plants in a couple more backyards. Cleanly! The coal commericals on TV are very good and they have come along way but at the same time I hope they spend as much on saftey as they do on getting reserves out of the ground. The Men and Women doing this job for our life styles need to be backed up with our dollars for a futurist safe envirorment. They don't have it now.
Gerald
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Well, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan now has a price tag of $10 billion per month. Makes that $100 million look like a tip jar on a bar.
Penny ante lip service.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

bar.
Look... I'll give you ostriches a little hint.
Denmark, Norway, France and Germany aint fighting in Iraq. Check out deeply into some of their news items. There's far more at stake here than the price of oil. Now if we're gonna talk about energy, let's do that and leave out the Bush Derangement Syndrome comments....and I'll nail Dubya and his brother for what they arent doing on the issue. On the other hand, if you want to pretend that there's some Trilateral Commission crap going on, then you deserve what you get from it.
--
Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:50:01 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio

Exactly what South Africa did when the UN sanctions were on them in the sixties/seventies. Made all their own gasoline from coal, and their gas cost less in 1973 than real gas dis in Zambia, who could buy wherever they wanted. ***
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The Germans in WW2 used coal for gasoline extensively - yet we can't seem to get it right after 60+ years.
As long as we have the NIMBY syndrome all fuels are going to keep going up.
Maybe, just maybe, someday the problem will be recognized. In the meantime open your wallets cause we haven't even started to feel the affects of our "green" policies.
Hopefully a little reason will prevail when my Grandkids are grandparents. (I predict 40 more years of thrashing about like we're doing now)
Ron
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Do you want to go into the business? Here is some of the information you will need along with several bullion dollars in start up finds ;)
The original Fischer-Tropsch process is described by the following chemical equation:
Failed to parse (Can't write to or create math output directory): CH_4 + \begin \frac \endO_2 \rarr 2 H_2 + CO Failed to parse (Can't write to or create math output directory): (2n+1)H_2 + nCO \rarr C_nH_ + nH_2O
The mixture of carbon monoxide and hydrogen is called synthesis gas or syngas. The resulting hydrocarbon products are refined to produce the desired synthetic fuel.
The carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide is generated by partial oxidation of coal and wood-based fuels. The utility of the process is primarily in its role in producing fluid hydrocarbons or hydrogen from a solid feedstock, such as coal or solid carbon-containing wastes of various types. Non-oxidative pyrolysis of the solid material produces syngas which can be used directly as a fuel without being taken through Fischer-Tropsch transformations. If liquid petroleum-like fuel, lubricant, or wax is required, the Fischer-Tropsch process can be applied. Finally, if hydrogen production is to be maximized, the water gas shift reaction can be performed, generating only carbon dioxide and hydrogen and leaving no hydrocarbons in the product stream. Fortunately shifts from liquid to gaseous fuels are relatively easy to make.
[edit] History Since the invention of the original process by the German researchers Franz Fischer and Hans Tropsch, working at the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute in the 1920s, many refinements and adjustments have been made, and the term "Fischer-Tropsch" now applies to a wide variety of similar processes (Fischer-Tropsch synthesis or Fischer-Tropsch chemistry)
The process was invented in petroleum-poor but coal-rich Germany in the 1920s, to produce liquid fuels. It was used by Germany and Japan during World War II to produce alternative fuels. Germany's yearly synthetic fuel production reached more than 124,000 barrels per day from 25 plants ~ 6.5 million tons in 1944 (http://www.fe.doe.gov/aboutus/history/syntheticfuels_history.html ).
((NOTE, it takes four barrels of crude oil to produce one barrel of gasoline today (2005). Currently the US consumes 220,000,000 barrels of gasonle a day. I can not find the number of barrels of diesel fuel consumed daily. IF sombody knows, please post that information)) mike hunt
After the war, captured German scientists recruited in Operation Paperclip continued to work on synthetic fuels in the United States in a United States Bureau of Mines program initiated by the Synthetic Liquid Fuels Act.
[edit] Utilization Currently, two companies have commercialized their FT technology. Shell in Bintulu, Malaysia, uses natural gas as a feedstock, and produces primarily low-sulfur diesel fuels. Sasol in South Africa uses coal and natural gas as a feedstock, and produces a variety of synthetic petroleum products. The process is today used in South Africa to produce most of the country's diesel fuel from coal by the company Sasol. The process was used in South Africa to meet its energy needs during its isolation under Apartheid. This process has received renewed attention in the quest to produce low sulfur diesel fuel in order to minimize the environmental impact from the use of diesel engines. A small US-based company, Rentech, is currently focussing on converting nitrogen-fertiliser plants from using a natural gas feedstock to using coal or coke, and producing liquid hydrocarbons as a by-product.
Also Choren in Germany and CWT (Changing World Technologies) have built FT plants or use similar processes.
The FT process is an established technology and already applied on a large scale, although its popularity is hampered by high capital costs, high operation and maintenance costs, and the relatively low price of crude oil.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
thanks for the info Mike. I am like you pretty convinced that until gasoline is in the say 7-10 dollar/gallon range will we suddenly discover that we need to explore alternatives. Then there will be a 10-20 year lag to get anything on line. Long past my need for it.
Ron
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
As long as drivers will go to the station that had the lowest price, evn if it a penny a gallon, alternates will not sell without government incentives. Look at the hybrids, buyers prefer the conventionally powered twins, because they cost thousands less to drive home even with incentives. Smart buyers do not want to reduce the amount of oil we import by prepaying for three years fuel consumption in the purchase price. The ultimate consumer product is the one that suits your personal needs and costs less. When I was in retail the most important question a buyer asked before signing on the bottom line was 'How much is my monthly payment?' LOL
mike hunt

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
So right Jeff. I live in No California and I know people on limited incomes will drive 8 or 10 miles each way to by 6 gallons of gasoline to save a couple of cents/gallon.
Until it really hurts to buy gasoline, no one will conserve nor will anyone even consider proper alternatives.
Hurt level probably double today's price, IMHO. Till then we'll keep sucking oil from non-home sources.
Ron
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Hurt level depends on wealth and income. If gas double in price, I would still go where i want to go. But there are people who can't afford to go where they want to go now. What I think we will see happening is that the economy will slow down because poor people can't afford to buy as much and the price of plastics and other petroleum-based goods will go up. In addition, people will start buying more fuel-efficent cars in the next few years, if the gas prices don't fall back to less than $2.00 per gallon. Very few people will rush to trade in their SUVs for small cars, but when the time comes, more people will buy small cars (and some will even buy hybrids).
Jeff

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
It's time to re-watch the old "Mad Max" films. The world economy is about to change quickly and citizens of the USA and UK will pay a dear price when it does. The faithless, liberal, peer-reviewed climate scientists postulate that a dramatic climactic calamity associated with global warming might be the cessation of the Gulf stream. 60 million English people will cool off fast after that. The Gulf of Mexico will heat up nicely and spawn massive hurricanes which disrupt exploration, production and refining of oil in the most productive areas of the USA. The huge mal-investment we have made in F350 duallys, et.al., is becoming worthless and someone is going to make a fortune converting surface streets into bike paths. We Americans are apt to be as destitute as Russian and Chinese peasants were in the 1950's. So, foreign companies will build the 750cc, 3 cylinder go-carts that wealthy Americans drive to their jobs at Wal-Mart (America's premier source for Chinese made goods) and the rest of us will commute to our jobs at the salt mines on our bicycles. Natural disasters are bad but the Government's looting of our paltry savings will be worse. Remember inflation (and stag-flation)? The roller coaster is about to leave the station and it will be a wild ride. People and organizations that are highly leveraged are about to go bankrupt. The rest of us will see our savings become worthless (think Germany in the 1920's). It will really be bad when some disturbed politician or military commander (think Gen. Jack D. Ripper) decides it is appropriate to blackmail the Arabians or the Chinese with nuclear weapons. That could get ugly. So, stock up on gasoline, propane for the grill, MRE's, water, m16 a2's for all the family members, warm clothes, lots of solar cells and batteries, seeds, hoes, horses, chickens, pigs and bicycles. Don't let your neighbors know your plan. We are apt to be recovering continuously from a hurricane, a pandemic, a stock market collapse, a riot of the unemployed, a cessation of electric service or an attack from foreign or domestic insurgents. All who now hold government jobs will be unemployed. All the big suburban McMansions will become rooming houses or funeral homes. My advice: buy gold and move to Argentina (or Brazil if you find Portuguese as musical as I do).
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Go for it. That will keep you too busy to troll.
Mike
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
hi, its just all crap, . the government knows that we CANNOT live/survive without gasoline, so they come up with the bullcrap that supplys are getting shorter etc..... so that they can hijak the oil prices. australia produces gasoline , but some how we here mysteriously dont use it , cause if there is anything happening in the world , the gov goes " due to %^$$^$%&^%$^%$ the price of petrol has to go up "
how come petrol , one week is $ 1.28 a litre then something happens in the world and petrol goes up 10 cents ?? what about the petrol that was in the tanks at the stations for 1.28 , . why doesnt the petrol that was in the tanks stay at 1.28 , cause they got it at the cheaper price , why dont they use that up then put more petrol in at the dearer price.
there is no way teh petrol companies will allow a extremely high mileage per litre petrol engine to be produced. that means they will sell less fuel , what about the people taht have designed these engines , and teh petrol compaines brought them out or hasseld em ?
another example of governments bullshit is teh cyclones taht went thru innasvale , queensland , and ruined some bananna crops, because of that they say prices of bannanas will go from 14$ a box to 40$ they make it sound like innasvale was the only place taht grew bananna, infact there are 4 other places near by taht where untouched by teh cyclone taht grew banannas, plus there are another 13 major places in australia that grow alot more bannans than innasvale, its just all bullshit.
mark k what has that got to do with the petrol we produce here in australia?

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.