Won't Start - checked these things - ECM suspected?

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the
wire,
Too dark to do this tonight, but I can tell you that it will most likely work. I have already jumpered the yellow to orange wire with the relay out and hotwired it to the positive battery terminal. The pump ran like a charm each time I touched the jumper to the battery terminal. And since the car does start (if I put starter fluid in the intake from the air filter), I think it is safe to make the assumption that injecting it with gas will start it too. This seems like a duplication of the efforts I have already made.
I have used the word 'cranked' so much, because that is exactly what it is doing. If you look back on all of my posts, the only time I said the car 'started' was when I sprayed in the starter fluid. It started up like a charm. I have already been told the difference between 'run' and 'start' positions on the ignition by this NS, and told to use the terms properly; which I certainly hope I have since then. But I gotta tell you, I am using 'crank' because that is exactly what it is doing. It cranks, but doesn't start or run or chug along. If there is a word I should be using for that instead, you guys better tell me! LOL
Take Care, Sharon
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out
charm
==========================Well if what you say you are positive of. If the wire digram is correct, your problem is the fuse link on the yellow wire, or at least a bad connect somewhere to the yellow wire. Fix the yellow wire's power first, it should have 12 volts ALL the time. Check it while cranking too, just to be positive. You should not of had to touch it to the positive battery to make the pump come on, it should run by connecting the orange and yellow by themselves. Again, fix the yellow wire, the fusable link is probably near the battery comming off the battery side of the starter solenoid. Again, fix the yellow wire. It is very possible you have blown it testing and stuff but it is very hard to fix two or three electrical problems at one time. Did I metion fix the yellow wire? Sorry, but I couldnt resist. :)
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You will not hurt anything, please do it and report back.

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Thomas,
First I drove back up to AutoZone with my Uncle's vehicle and got the four prong fuel pump relay. It made no difference. Then, I forced the fuel pump to run by grounding the tank and putting a jumper in the orange wire that goes to the inertia switch and the other end on the +battery terminal. I left the fuel pump relay in the socket to do this. The pump kicks on and runs constantly, but the car does not start. I hope you can tell me what that may mean. I am going to try BeeVee's suggestion on the distributor ignition test next.
Thanks and take care, Sharon
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As I stated before, may be you missed it or did not understand. Just because you have spark does not mean the ECM sees a crank signal. If the ECM does not see a crank signal, it will not provide fuel from the injectors, meaning the car will not start. Also just because you here the fuel pump run does not mean it is pumping. You need to find out if you have proper fuel pressure by putting a gauge on it. By your posts, I'm not so sure you have a problem with the fuel pump circuit. You stated that when you turn the key to crank the tan wire has 0 volts. That is what you should see. Also, do you have the batter cables reinstalled while you are trying to start the car? You said you got new cables, did you replace the cables or just the cable ends?

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I have made the assumption that it is running, since I am smelling a strong odor of gas after it runs a bit.

Don't have one.

Yes
No cables and I am assuming that this is okay since everything else is operating properly and I am getting a 12volt reading on the yellow wire.
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While following this post, something comes to mind. It may or may not be an issue. Does this vehicle application have a ground wire coming from the negative terminal going to the computer? I know on my '85 Cougar this wire had a disconnect used to erase codes that were set in the computer. If this car has one, could it have been left disconnected? Would this cause the car not to start? Don't know for sure, but just a thought. Good luck!! Electrical issues are a pain to find sometimes.

four
pump
that
I
and
what
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No that is not the case.

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On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:30:47 -0500, Sharon wrote:

You shouldn't need to touch the battery when bypassing the relay. Simply connect the two wires of the secondary circuit to each other.
A relay is just a "light switch", but instead of you standing at the top of the stairs flipping the switch, the computer in the car is flipping the switch (electrically, not mechanically). Also, instead of the light in the hall turning on and off, the fuel pump is your "light bulb".
If a light switch in your house was broken, you wouldn't run a jumper cable all the way down to the power company :-). You would simply connect both terminals of the switch together if you wanted to verify that the switch is broken, not the wiring. Likewise with the relay in your car. Instead of connecting the orange wire to the battery, connect the orange wire to the other wire in the relay (I think it would be the yellow one, since that's the one Scott said to fix). If bypassing the relay like that doesn't work then the other (yellow) wire needs fixing. After you've solved that problem, move on to the next one (if any more remain, but it sounds like there are).
HTH, -D
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No, it works the other way also, by just jumping the two wires (yellow and orange). I can get the pump to turn on, but I can not get the car to start. I have no tools to check pump pressure, but it sure ran like a top all the way across country, just before it died. It did not spit or sputter, so I would think the sock is clean and I put on the fuel filter just before I left NY. I put almost 3000 miles coming here. No problems with running or starting. Nothing. Seriously. I would think if it was a fuel pump clog, it would act up, just a little.
Take Care, Sharon
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Thomas I have done the ECM test you told me to do several different ways for grounding. I got no reading on the multimeter on any of them (see below). I also tried a quickie of jumping a wire from the self test connector for the fuel pump to ground to see if I could force the usual with that (pump runs constantly) and nothing happened. I have no codes in the self test connector itself. Something is definitely not working right in this wiring. But, with these schematics, I can't be sure what connects where. There are some fusible links along the path, but they are on opposite side of that circuit.
I am going to make an assumption on that wiring diagram that the red wire is the line in on the primary line and the tan/lt grn wire is going out (
http://www.rare-cancer.org/car/relaywire.gif ). I have the fuel pump relay connected properly. When I test the red wire, I have 12 good, solid volts going in. When I test the grounded tan/lt grn wire, I got nadda. (I put a ground connection to it and put the multimeter on a piece of the wire stripped of insulation and turned the key to crank it). Is it possible that the relay connectors are not making good contact? I want to take them out, hook up the wires direct with slip on connections and electrical tape the piss out of them. Then try to start it. What do you think? Is it worth my trying that? Will I short anything without the protection of that plastic case and dialectic grease?
Thanks for reading my posts. Take Care, Sharon
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I told you one way, please do not deviate.

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As mentioned before, the tan wire is the relay primary ground. With the relay in its socket, put a test lead in the tan wire and put the other test lead to a ground, turn the key to RUN do NOT turn the key to crank!, do you have 12 volts? Yes or no? If yes THEN turn the key to crank. Do you now have less than 12 volts, if yes what is it? If it is below 12 volts like say 1 or less, that is normal and the circuit is working correctly. If it stays 12 volts get back to me.

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is the relay primary ground. With the relay in

a
volts?
is
to
I have nothing when I turn it to run only. There is nothing coming out of that wire. I think I reported that in another message. Take Care, Sharon
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Did the fuel pump work before you changed the solenoid and battery cable? In a post you made on 11-04-03 you said

end of the solenoid

Sounds like that is when your problem started. Stan
wrote in message > As mentioned before, the tan wire

to
12
12
that
back
Sharon
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No, the fuel pump has not run since the problem began. It was the original problem. Somehow, I believe, the original fuel pump relay was bad and stayed on all the time, draining the battery. I got the battery recharged (originally) and heard a lot of clicking noises when jiggling the relay wires, but no fuel pump noise.
Take Care, Sharon
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wrote in message > As mentioned before, the tan wire

You have nothing coming out of what wire? the tan or red? You may have reported it, but you leave out information.
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Thomas, if you look below, you will see that you did not tell me which wire to check voltage on. I just assumed you meant to check on the tan wire. It was the tan wire that I got no reading on. Please tell me if I was to check the grounding wire also? Take Care, Sharon
wire

lead to

12
than 12

that
back
of
Sharon
reported
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Sharon. not only have I told you but others as well. The tan wire is the ground. The red is the "hot side". Look at your schematic. Follow the red wire. Notice that it goes to a dot ( that is a junction ) with other wires merging into it? keep following. It goes to the EEC relay. As I told you the EEC relay powers the fuel pump relay. If you keep following the red wire it also powers the injectors the thermactor solenoid the canister purge solenoid just to name a few items. If you take the time to look say at an injector harness you will notice it has one red wire. That is the same circuit as the red wire on the fuel pump relay and EEC power relay. It will show 12 volts when the key is in the run position, try it. So I'll say it again. Put the key in run and test the red wire. Do you have 12 volts? I'll assume yes. Put the test lead on the tan wire with the key in run, do you have 12 volts, I'll assume yes, and that is what you should see. Keep the test lead where it is at and turn the key to crank ( crank meaning you are starting the engine ) the voltage should drop to 0. I'll assume that is what is happening by your past posts and that is what you want to see. You do not have a fuel pump gauge? You need one. You will not know for sure if the pump is doing what it is supposed to do with out it. So if you put the meter on the tan wire and got 0 volts

read on..........posted 11/12/03 @ 7:22pm
"As mentioned before, the tan wire is the relay primary ground. With the relay in its socket, put a test lead in the tan wire and put the other test lead to a ground, turn the key to RUN do NOT turn the key to crank!, do you have 12 volts? Yes or no? If yes THEN turn the key to crank. Do you now have less than 12 volts, if yes what is it? If it is below 12 volts like say 1 or less, that is normal and the circuit is working correctly. If it stays 12 volts get back to me."
<snip> If you do not understand, please say so. If you do not understand please let me know what you do not understand.
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has one

and
position, try

have
in
see.
From my post at 5:11 pm yesterday: "I am going to make an assumption on that wiring diagram that the red wire is the line in on the primary line and the tan/lt grn wire is going out (
http://www.rare-cancer.org/car/relaywire.gif ). I have the fuel pump relay connected properly. When I test the red wire, I have 12 good, solid volts going in. When I test the grounded tan/lt grn wire, I got nadda."
What I meant by 'nadda' on the tan/lt grn wire is that I get 0 volts all the time. I have tried to read the volts on just that wire, nothing. Then I added an extra ground to that wire (as someone suggested later) nothing. Then I stripped the insulation off of a section of that wire to make sure I was getting a good contact, nothing. If I crank the engine, I get nothing from the very start, so it doesn't 'drop down to 0'. So, I have no idea what you are talking about, because I already did the test you are telling me to do and I already replied to this NS about the results in detail and I already took suggestions that were given to make sure it was done properly and reported back on that also. You said "Put the test lead on the tan wire with the key in run, do you have 12 volts, I'll assume yes, and that is what you should see." Let me answer clearly No, I do not have 12 volts on the tan wire. I have 0 volts on the tan wire.
Take Care, Sharon
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