Oil change interval

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was less strain on your wallet replacing tyres in pairs rather than all four at once. You pay the same both ways but one method spreads the load.
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Paul Giverin
British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk
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Not applicable here. Believe what you want, I go with physics.
BTW If you happen to take a car security training one day, ask the instructor about it. ;)
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Michael Heiming

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wrote:

If you rotate your tires regularly you won't have to decide that question. Your car was designed to have tires with equal tread all round. That's why we rotate tires. Gerry
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Your misbelief doesn't make that anymore true, almost none rotates tires over here. As already stated, if you happen to take a car security training one day, ask the instructor where the better tares belong.
;)
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Michael Heiming

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Except those that own Subarus, of course. Their AWD system demands uniform tread thickness. Not sure about any of the other AWD systems.
I will say this t(h)read has been interesting (sic)--I'd always assumed that the best tires would go on front. Are there any tire/car manufacturers advocating the best tires on the rear?
Semi-moot with me, as I've always strived for equal tread all the way around, mostly attainable by rotation. Really not that expensive to do--Ford dealers are advertising an oil change & rotation for about $35 + tax, DIY even cheaper...it's the balancing that gets expensive.
--
Raider Rick
"Just drive, baby
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The Michelin UK site says that the best tyres should go on the back. <http://www.michelin.co.uk/uk/auto/auto_cons_bib_pqr_neuf.jsp
Ford recommend tyres are replaced long before the tread depth reaches the UK legal minimum.
As the front tyres always wear much quicker than the back not rotating tyres probably means that for the average UK motorist the tyres with the greater tread depth will be on the back for the majority of the time.

Probably double that price (in dollars) in the UK - Value Added Tax (VAT) is 17.5 percent on parts and labour.
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Alan
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Thx, that's exactly what I had tried a short search about, to back up my statement, but couldn't find. I have been told that during various driver security training from the instructors.
Already bookmarked, for further discussions about the problem. ;)
Regards
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Michael Heiming

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wrote

Northern US states for tire dealers to install a new set of winter tires only on the rear axel. After some experimentation this winter, I found the only reliable method of breaking loose the rear of my SVTFocus was to get into a turn and yank up on the parking break. Rotates beautifully. On the other hand, getting the front to push was 'n slide no problem at all. New winters all aroundd, BTW.
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wrote:

But then again you guys seem to get through tires pretty fast :-)) Gerry.
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writes

Well, yes and no. Not so relevant to aquaplaning, but in poor traction such as snow or slick roads, but where the tire still contacts the road, having the poorer tires on the back can exaggerate any evil tendencies a FWD car may have under braking or in lift-throttle conditions. If you've ever driven a Peugeot 205GTI, you're well aware of the concept of lift-throttle-snap-oversteer. :-) On my 1st generation VW Scirocco (light, fairly neutral handling) the best setup in the winter was to rotate the worst tires to the *front*. There was more than enough weight over the front wheels to help out on traction. With the worse tires on the back, it had more of a tendency to oversteer. Now, did it ever spontaneously go into oversteer without being provoked (i.e. braking or lift-throttle in a *heavy* corner, or being a hooligan with the steering)? Nope. Of course, when I say "worse" tires, I'm really only talking about a mm of tread depth difference max. Anything more than that and you should probably be visiting a tire store quickly.
Stephen
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wrote:

Perhaps like many Germans he's most familiar with driving in a straight line ad nauseum on the Autobahn. My experience from following German tourists through the Alps is they really don't have a clue what a curve is, and therefore he could be excused if he has never experienced understeer in a corner.
:-)
Stephen
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On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:20:06 +0100, Michael Heiming

And what happens if you have to avoid the vehicle in front? care to explain how one steers with no steering on the front wheels. This can be the result of driving with badly worn tyres on the front axle

You really talk some garbage don't you just because you may not be able to control a rear wheel skid doesn't mean the rest of us cannot.

Well if you don't understand the principles of how to apply opposite lock whilst driving a car which has lost adhesion on it's rear wheels I suggest that you too are not a rally driver. BTW I also comes in usefull when on public roads

Is this the normal reaction of a German who can not hold a decent debate on a subject? Most of the ones I work with are far more polite or have I been lucky?
Regards
Andy Lee
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Ford does not sell TDCi engine cars in the US.
The only diesel engine cars for sale in recent years in the US are from VW, who recommends 10000 mile oil change (and other service) intervals.
--
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Timothy J. Lee
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Hmmm. Interesting. Why is that?
wrote:

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I'm back!
Wasn't that terrific? What a fantastic response! I loved it. I'm still giggling. I have read all the responses and I'm no sure where best to fit in the reply!
I fancy that all the stuff that Michael was talking about realy applies to the sort of cars that Top Gear reviews. You know, fast twitchy cars, loads more horse power than I could ever afford and indeed would ever want to buy.
Yeah, I'm sure that for fast cornerning at 90 mph, with only 3 wheels on the ground going around the hammer head corner on that aerodrome, 8mm of treat on the back, 6mm on the front, just the sort of track driving that Top Gear shows when visitors to the programme drive the 'ordinary' car as fast as they can, then that is the right thing to do. Under those conditions (not that I would know) I could imagine that a back going before a front would be more scary that a front going before the back.
Forget all that. Its hyperthetical bollocks for us guys. We all here, except you may be, drive on public roads where we try and stop before we run into pedestrians and other unpredictable obstructions that suddenly appear in front of us with out our permission!
I drive my car on either narrow country lanes, or 'straight line' A roads & motorways.
On a country lane, in the wet (3 inch deep puddles made of cow shit and fallen leaves), and the near side has inch deep loose road surface chippings that have piled up over the summer, I need to stop damn quick when someone comes the other way who hasn't learnt what the middle peddel is for yet, and where I live there is a shicane! Yeap, a real schicane! Its amazing. No priority signs; a blind bend lead up to it one side and a dead end dive hole the other. The road narrows to 8 feet. So you are approaching this 8 ft gap at 30-35 MPG, (if you drive at 25 MPH you can't get out of the shicane before someone coming the other way crashes into you ) you see someone appear around the bend coming the way, you have to either go or stop. If you stop you need to stop in the 'lay bye' before you hit the 3ft diameter oak in the middle of your path. You have got 8mm of tread on the back, and 2mm on the front. Its pissing down with rain, there is flood water running down the road, and the cows have recently gone across the road for milking (shit everywhere). And you are more confident of straight line stopping with your this configuration rather than having 2mm on the back and 8mm on the front? If so, then please don't drive near where I live!
Put this scenareo in front of your tyre manufacturer experts and see what they say!
The other time when you NEED tread is when you are on a long drive, doing 70 MPH, tried, fed up, pissing down with rain, thinking about .................., then there is a pile of red stop lights in front of you! Again you, Michael, are more confident of straight line stopping with this tyre configuration than having 2mm on the back and 8mm on the front? If so, then please don't drive behind me when I am on a motorway in the wet.
And why didn't you understand my comment about a front engine car sinking front first in a lake? I didn't explain it as I thought that I would be patronising! However, the point is (as you correctly alluded to), front engine cars are heavy in the front. (Focus news group, I assume we are talking about front engined cars here are we?). When any car breaks heavily most of the weight 'transferes' to the front. With a front engined car there is vertually no weight on the rear and therefore virtually no breaking force given by the rear tyres. Why do you want any treadon the back under these straight line maximum breaking conditions in the worst weather? You don't, but you do when whizzing around corners quick, especially if the car heals over so much the offside rear tyre is off the ground!
So its all a matter what you use your car for. Racing, or trying to not run over kids that dash out in front of you!
Take my advice chaps, watch the current child safety advert with the kid that is going to be run over cause the car was doing 35 mph rather than 30 mph. The front tyres are locked and smoking, the rears are free and are rotating. Draw your own conclusions about the laws of physics and which tyres need the tread in the wet.
And bear in mind that the Focus cars you see on race tracks are stripped out, different engines, different suspension, different ....... and everthing is balanced, and I bet they don't put tyres with 2mm of tread left back on the car to get another 2000 miles out of them as I do!
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[ Lots of rubbish ]

Over here all Focus have ABS, there's nothing smoking.

If you happen to take a car security training one day, ask the instructor about were the better tires belong, you'll be surprised. ;)
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Michael Heiming

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Or draw your own conclusions about which manufacturer has installed a completely bogus brake proportioning valve, perhaps cautious after the fuss about the old GM X-Cars locking their rear brakes too early. The "laws of physics" would dictate that the weight shifts to the front under braking, unloading the rear tires, which should break traction first. To have locked front tires and freely rotating tires, your either live in a parellel universe where Newton never existed, or have some hunk of junk with frozen rear calipers.
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Its a fact, for cars without ABS, and most cars in UK don't, there is normally a special valve fitted in the rear brake lines (or other similar mechanism) to prevent rear wheel lock up under virtually all conditions. So you get f*** all breaking from the back.
wrote:

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Like I said... a poorly designed proportioning valve. However, it's not catastrophic as most FWD cars could have their rear brakes disconnected and still turn in stopping distances within a few metres, as there is so much weight over the front wheels, which is increased under braking, that there isn't much chance to develop substantial braking forces at the back.
Stephen
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wrote

Quite sure. 10,000 miles and 12,500 miles are the figures these days for BOTH petrol and diesels!
G.
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