Re: OT Wonder why we own Toyota? look at alt.autos.ford.focus

"badraptor"..... take note Stephen used "lucky" (regarding assembly) and "recall" (knowing the Focus history) in the same paragraph. THIS one of YOUR people!

To be fair, the Focus was the *most* reliable car in Germany, according to the 2002 TÜV survey. This carries a lot more weight than J.D. Powers, as it is based on the results of the stringent, mandatory annual inspection for cars.

I was lucky it was built in Cologne. I was also lucky to be not too far from home when the alternator in my Corolla GTS exploded. I only had to wait 2 hours for a tow, and then argue for two days to get Toyota to cover the repair. Goes both ways...

Stephen

In news:3fd04dd9$ snipped-for-privacy@news.unibe.ch, Stephen F. being of bellicose mind posted:

In Germany. What happened to the American made Foci? J.D. Powers is irrelevant. Alternators do not "explode." Maybe Stephen engages in a little hyperbole?

Obviously Jealous !

. . .

In news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com, John Doe being of bellicose mind posted:

Jealous of admitting Stephan was "lucky" to get a good Focus and taking in stride to probability of a "recall" ??? Pal, there's little hope for you. Stephen has clarity and for that, I have to chuckle.

"Stephen F." sez:

The first thing I will say

Gotta agree ... but boring is fine by me. My "Hunk O. Junk" Chevy Suburban has been just a tad too "exciting" for me in the maintenance department and with 8 motorcycles, 3 cars and a lawnmower for which I'm sole head wrench, I'm in maintenance overload.

this

Good on ya. I get my thrills on a motorcycle. 50 hp in a 220 lb. machine is a rippin' good time!

VLJ

HAY PHILIP THERE IS A BIG HEADING IN THIS NG WITH YOUR NAME ON IT WHICH YOU HAVENT ANSWERED YET AR IS IT THAT YOU GAVE ME A CHALLENGE

phillip say;

Funny! As a Toyota owning customer of theirs, I can (and have) walked into my Toyota dealer and asked for a TSB from the senior service writer and gotten it. Do you not do the same for Ford owners? I suppose RECALLs are for the public seeing as .... the Focus has so many of them. What's the ratio of Focus TSBs to RECALLs? 50:1? ;-)

I POSTED ALL THE TSBS AND RECALS AND WHERE IS YOURS?

TALK IS CHEAP PHILLIP VERY CHEAP! WHEN YOU MAKE CHALLENGE BACK IT UP!! DONT TALK OUT YOUR ASS!! LIKE YOU DO ALL THE TIME

OHH YES THE JAPS MAKE SUCH GOOD CARS YEA RIGHT!! READ ON REMEMBER YOU QUOTING CONSUMER REPORTS READ THIS

December 2003

Hundreds of thousands of Hondas and Acuras could roll

You should never remove the ignition key of a vehicle without first turning off the engine and putting the transmission shifter in Park. That will prevent the auto from rolling if you're stopped on an incline and forgot to engage the parking brake. But more that half a million Hondas and Acuras, some as old as 1997 model year, are susceptible to rolling because of a potentially faulty ignition switch.

About 600,000 older Honda and Acura passenger cars and Honda Odyssey minivans have been recalled for the problem, which stems from an ignition switch that could wear excessively and prevent the transmission interlock from working properly. That enables the key to be removed while the shifter is still in gear. Also recalled are less than 100,000 late-model Honda CR-V sport-utility vehicles. While the CR-V is subject to the same problem, the cause is thought to be metal particles in the key cylinder that could interfere with the operation of the interlock lever.

Models: 570,120 cars and minivans, including '97-99 Acura CL, '99 Acura TL, '98-99 Honda Accord, and '99 Honda Odyssey; and 76,988 '02 CR-Vs.

What to do: With all but the CR-V, have the dealer inspect the ignition-switch cylinder for wear. If there are signs of excessive wear, the dealer will replace cylinder body, collar, and latch plate. If there are no signs of wear, the dealer will replace the latch plate with a redesigned part. With the CR-V, have the dealer inspect and test the ignition switch for contamination from metal particles and, if necessary, repair the switch.

Take note of what Philip commented on out of Stephen's post, with scores of lines singing praises for the Focus. He has an axe to grind.

-- Tony

Former owner of '84 and '91 Corollas, both of which suffered automatic trany failures.

Current owner of 2001 Focus with 70,000+ miles.

In news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com, Tony Wesley being of bellicose mind posted:

Congratulations. I met up with an old friend who just bought another Focus. His first one (2000) suddenly started making howling sounds from 2,3 and 4th gears. Diagnosed as trans replacement time. 66k miles. He enjoys the Eurpean handling and balance .... admitedly at the expense of durability. Ford dealer gave him a good trade.

Understand the following: 1st, at the time (2000) Focus debuted in the US, Ford has had over 20 yrs of making front wheel drive cars world wide. They should know what they're doing by the year 2000 and have had LOTS of successful examples to copy. 2nd, Ford's European Focus has been a good car by comparison to the US release. What happened? If you want to do an introductory model comparison between Toyota entering the FWD market and Ford entering the FWD market, then compare the Ford Fiesta with Toyota's first FWD version of Corolla.

In message , badraptor writes

Oh FFS give it a rest both of you. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is sick of reading this bickering. And Badraptor, it has been pointed out to you before that you don't make news posts in capitals. Please stop it.

In message , badraptor writes

That's what I do for a living.

Yes.

Good.

He wasn't the only one.

Good comaprison - for Ford. The orignal Fiesta was a great car. The original FWD Corolla was not as good despite being introduced over 8 years after the Fiesta (a 1986 model?). However, I think the real comparison should be to that paragon of Toyota virtue the Tercel (maybe this is what you mean, since it was at times called the Corolla Tercel). The was a true loser car. The part that makes the comparison difficult is the lack of visibility that we have to Japanese car market. There is no way I can know how many bugs were worked out in Japan before they inflicted the Tercel on the US.

Fiestas were imported into the US for three years. There were no safety recalls for any of these models. The first year of the Tercel in the US was 1980. 1980-'82 had one safety recall, the '83-'84 had two, the '85-'86 had one. Likewise the first year Corolla FWD sedan ('86) had one recall.

Ed

The Ford Fiesta as introduced to the US was quickly nicknamed by those in dealerships... the Ford Fiasco. But it did survive for what.... 3 years?

1978 Fiesta had three recalls. Two were very minor and the third was related to electrical fires in the A/C wiring.

Agreed on 1980-82 Trailing arm corrosion in areas using salt for ice removal. '83, '84, '85, '86 no Tercel recalls.

No Corolla recalls in 1986. (NHTSA)

OH that's right... Fiestas were not built here. BTW, I was referring to US (NUMMI) built Corollas. So what was Ford's first FWD small car built domestically? Escort? We need a fair comparison: Ford and Toyota's first FWD econo car and US built. That would address the Focus build quality comparison in Europe vs. US.

But looking at the recall record of Escort's early years only makes Nummi Corolla's look better! LOL

In news:jradnW snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com, badraptor being of bellicose mind posted:

RECALLS listed for Ford Focus: Starting with 2000:

NHTSA Campaign Number: 02V289000 Defect Summary: CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES HAVE LOOSE PINCH BOLTS THAT SECURE THE LOWER CONTROL ARM TO THE STEERING KNUCKLE HAVE BEEN REPORTED. Consequence Summary: LOOSE PINCH BOLTS COULD EXHIBIT NOISE, VIBRATION AND, IN EXTREME CASES IF LEFT UNCORRECTED, SEPARATION OF THE JOINT OR FRACTURE OF THE BALL JOINT STUD, INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH. Corrective Summary: DEALERS WILL INSPECT THE STEERING KNUCKLE PINCH BOLT FOR TIGHTNESS AND CORRECT AS NECESSARY. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN FEBRUARY 10, 2003. OWNERS WHO DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT FORD AT 1-866-436-7332.

NHTSA Campaign Number: 02V288000 Defect Summary: CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH ZETEC ENGINES, LOOSE OR BROKEN ATTACHMENTS AND MISROUTED BATTERY CABLES COULD LEAD TO CABLE INSULATION DAMAGE. Consequence Summary: THIS, IN TURN, COULD CAUSE THE BATTERY CABLES TO SHORT RESULTING IN HEAT DAMAGE TO THE CABLES. BESIDES HEAT DAMAGE, THE "CHECK ENGINE" LIGHT MAY ILLUMINATE, THE VEHICLE MAY FAIL TO START, OR SMOKE, MELTING, OR FIRE COULD ALSO OCCUR. Corrective Summary: DEALERS WILL INSPECT THE BATTERY CABLES FOR THE CONDITION OF THE CABLE INSULATION AND PROPER TIGHTENING OF THE TERMINAL ENDS. AS NECESSARY, CABLES WILL BE REROUTED, RETAINING CLIPS INSTALLED, AND DAMAGED BATTERY CABLES REPLACED. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN FEBRUARY 10, 2003. OWNERS WHO DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT FORD AT 1-866-436-7332.

NHTSA Campaign Number: 01I017000 Defect Summary: THIS IS NOT A SAFETY RECALL IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE SAFETY ACT. HOWEVER, IT IS DEEMED A SAFETY IMPROVEMENT CAMPAIGN BY THE AGENCY. VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: 2000-2001 FORD FOCUS PASSENGER VEHICLES, ORIGINALLY SOLD OR CURRENTLY REGISTERED IN THE STATES OF CONNECTICUT, DELAWARE, ILLINOIS, INDIANA, IOWA, KENTUCKY, MAINE, MARYLAND, MASSACHUSETTS, MICHIGAN, MINNESOTA, MISSOURI, NEW HAMPSHIRE, NEW JERSEY, NEW YORK, OHIOM, PENNSYLVANIA, RHODE ISLAND, VERMONT, WEST VIRGINIA, AND WISCONSIN. IN HIGH CORROSION AREAS, WHERE SALT IS USED ON ROADWAYS IN THE WINTER, THE REAR WHEEL BEARING SEAL RACE CAN EXPERIENCE SURFACE CORROSION. IF THIS CONDITION OCCURS, THE WHEEL BEARING SEALS COULD BECOME DAMAGED AND ALLOW CONTAMINATION TO ENTER THE WHEEL BEARINGS. Consequence Summary: THE WHEEL BEARINGS COULD PREMATURELY WEAR AND CAUSE A NOTICEABLE NOISE. IF NOT REPAIRED, THIS CONDITION COULD PROGRESS TO THE POINT WHERE THE WHEEL BEGINS TO WOBBLE. Corrective Summary: DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE REAR WHEEL BEARINGS AT NO COST TO THE CONSUMER. ADDITIONAL BEARING SEALS WILL ALSO BE INSTALLED TO ENSURE A SMOOTH RIDE. THIS PROGRAM WILL BE IN EFFECT UNTIL DECEMBER 31, 2002, REGARDLESS OF MILEAGE. EVEN IF THE VEHICLE HAS ALREADY BEEN SERVICED UNDER RECALL CAMPAIGN 00S31, FORD HAS TAKEN ADDITIONAL STEPS TO KEEP THE WHEEL BEARINGS IN TOP SHAPE. OWNERS CAN CONTACT FORD AT 1-866-436-7332, CONCERNING THIS PROGRAM.

NHTSA Campaign Number: 01V258000 Defect Summary: VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER CARS, SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES, AND LIGHT AND MEDIUM DUTY PICKUP TRUCKS. A SWITCH LOCATED IN THE PLASTIC COVER OF THE WIPER MOTOR GEAR CASE COULD MALFUNCTION AND OVERHEAT, POTENTIALLY RESULTING IN LOSS OF INTERMITTENT WIPER Consequence Summary: LOSS OF VISIBILITY WHILE DRIVING INCREASES THE RISK OF A CRASH. Corrective Summary: DEALERS WILL INSPECT THE DATE CODE ON THE WIPER MOTOR. MOTORS BUILT WITH THE SUSPECT TIME FRAME WILL HAVE THE WIPER MOTOR GEAR CASE COVER REPLACED. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN AUGUST 20,

2001. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT FORD AT 1-866-436-7332

NHTSA Campaign Number: 00V418000 Defect Summary: VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: STATION WAGONS AND 3-DOOR VEHICLES. THE SUBJECT VEHICLES HAVE A FOLDING 60/40 SECOND SEAT THAT BECOMES A LOAD FLOOR IN THE FOLDED POSITION. WHEN THE 60% PORTION OF THE SEAT IS FOLDED DOWN AND A LOAD IS APPLIED TO THE FRONT EDGE OF THE LOAD FLOOR, THE OUTBOARD HINGE PIVOT COULD DISENGAGE FROM THE HINGE. Consequence Summary: IF THE SEAT IS THEN RETURNED TO THE UPRIGHT POSITION WITHOUT RE-ENGAGING THE HINGE PIVOT, THE SEAT AND SEAT BELTS MAY NOT PROVIDE THE INTENDED LEVEL OF PERFORMANCE IN THE EVENT OF A CRASH. Corrective Summary: DEALERS WILL INSTALL A REVISED SEAT BACK HINGE PIVOT.

NHTSA Campaign Number: 00V411000 Defect Summary: VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER VEHICLES. A DECKLID WIRE HARNESS CAN FATIGUE AND DEVELOP BROKEN WIRES IN THE BEND AREA OF THE WIRE HARNESS. Consequence Summary: THIS COULD RESULT IN EITHER A LOSS OF INDIVIDUAL LAMP FUNCTIONS, OR IN THE CASE OF A SHORT OF THE BROKEN WIRES THAT CAUSES A FUSE TO OPEN, IN THE LOSS OF STOP LAMP OR TAIL LAMP FUNCTION. LOSS OF STOP LAMP OR TAIL LAMP FUNCTION COULD INCREASE THE RISK OF A CRASH. Corrective Summary: DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE DECKLID WIRE HARNESS.

NHTSA Campaign Number: 00V303000 Defect Summary: VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER VEHICLES. THE REAR WHEEL HUB RETAINING NUTS CAN LOOSEN AND ALLOW THE LEFT REAR WHEEL AND BRAKE DRUM ASSEMBLY TO SEPARATE FROM THE VEHICLE. Consequence Summary: THIS CONDITION COULD RESULT IN A VEHICLE CRASH. Corrective Summary: DEALERS WILL INSPECT THE REAR WHEEL BEARINGS AND INSTALL A REAR WHEEL RETENTION CAP TO PREVENT LEFT REAR WHEEL SEPARATION. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN OCTOBER 12, 2000. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT FORD AT 1-800-392-3673.

NHTSA Campaign Number: 00V302000 Defect Summary: VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH SPEED CONTROL AND AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION. A SPEED CONTROL CABLE COULD HAVE A CORE WIRE THAT IS LONG ENOUGH TO CATCH ON THE SLEEVE AT THE THROTTLE BODY END OF THE CABLE DURING WIDE-OPEN THROTTLE ACCELERATION. Consequence Summary: A THROTTLE THAT DOES NOT RETURN TO IDLE COULD RESULT IN REDUCED VEHICLE CONTROL AND, POTENTIALLY, A VEHICLE CRASH.

Corrective Summary: DEALERS WILL INSPECT THESE VEHICLES AND, IF NECESSARY, REPLACE THE SPEED CONTROL CABLE. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN OCTOBER 12, 2000. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT FORD AT

1-800-392-3673.

NHTSA Campaign Number: 00V218000 Defect Summary: VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER VEHICLES. CERTAIN VEHICLES FAIL TO COMPLY WITH REQUIREMENTS OF FMVSS NO. 201, "OCCUPANT PROTECTION IN INTERIOR IMPACT." THE RESULTANT HIC(D) VALUE AT ONE TARGET LOCATION AP1, LOCATED ON THE TRIM PANEL AT THE JUNCTURE OF THE A-PILLAR AND ROOF SIDE RAIL, MAY BE GREATER THAN DESIGN INTENT. Consequence Summary: IN THE EVENT OF A CRASH, AN OCCUPANT CONTACTING THAT LOCATION MAY NOT BE PROVIDED THE INTERIOR IMPACT PROTECTION INTENDED. Corrective Summary: DEALERS WILL REMOVE THE LEFT AND RIGHT SIDE B-PILLAR AND A-PILLAR TRIM PANELS, REVISE THE HEADLINER EDGE NEAR THE TOPS OF THE A-PILLARS TO ACCEPT THE NEW A-PILLAR TRIM PANELS WITH THEIR ENERGY ABSORBING TUBES, AND INSTALL THE NEW A-PILLAR AND THE OLD B-PILLAR TRIM PANELS.

NHTSA Campaign Number: 99V346000 Defect Summary: VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH SPEED CONTROL. THE SPEED CONTROL CABLE END FITTING CAN ALLOW WATER TO ENTER THE SPEED CONTROL SERVO ASSEMBLY. IF THIS OCCURS, CORROSION IN THE SERVO ASSEMBLY COULD DEVELOP AND CAUSE INTERMITTENT SPEED CONTROL OPERATION OR PREVENT THE THROTTLE FROM RETURNING TO IDLE. Consequence Summary: A THROTTLE THAT DOES NOT RETURN TO IDLE COULD RESULT IN UNEXPECTED ACCELERATION, INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH. Corrective Summary: DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE SPEED CONTROL CABLE (WITH A NEW CABLE THAT INCORPORATES A GLASS-FILLED END CAP) AND INSPECT THE ASSEMBLY FOR INTERNAL CORROSION. SERVOS WITH EVIDENCE OF CORROSION WILL ALSO BE REPLACED. OWNERS ARE ADVISED NOT TO USE THE SPEED CONTROL UNTIL THE VEHICLES ARE REPAIRED.

Recalls For 2001:

NHTSA Campaign Number: 02V289000 (steering linkage recall still in effect from 2000)

NHTSA Campaign Number: 02V288000 (batter cable recall still in effect from 2000)

NHTSA Campaign Number: 01I017000 (not a recall.... wheel bearing and stud improvement, still in effect from 2000)

NHTSA Campaign Number: 01V258000 (washer motor recall still in effect from 2000)

NHTSA Campaign Number: 01V108000 Defect Summary: VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: SEDANS AND WAGONS. THE SEAT BACK RECLINER HANDLE SPRING COULD HAVE BEEN DAMAGED DURING AN IN-PROCESS TEST AND THE OCCUPANT MAY NOTICE A CHUCKING, OR PERCEIVED LOOSENESS OF THE FRONT SEAT BACK, OR THE SEAT BACK COULD UNEXPECTEDLY RECLINE. Consequence Summary: IF THE SEAT BACK UNEXPECTEDLY RECLINES WHILE THE CAR IS BEING DRIVEN, IT COULD RESULT IN LOSS OF VEHICLE CONTROL. Corrective Summary: DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE SEAT BACK RECLINER HANDLE SPRING FOR THE DRIVER AND FRONT PASSENGER SEATS. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN APRIL 3, 2001. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT FORD AT 1-800-392-3673.

NHTSA Campaign Number: 00V418000 (seat pivot recall still in effect)

Recalls For 2002:

NHTSA Campaign Number: 02V117000 Defect Summary: ON CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES BUILT WITH MANUAL TRANSAXLES, THERE IS THE POTENTIAL FOR THE SPEED CONTROL CABLE TO HANG UP AT THE THROTTLE BODY BRACKET DURING HIGH, WIDE OPEN THROTTLE OPERATION, PREVENTING THE THROTTLE FROM RETURNING TO THE CLOSED POSITION WHEN THE ACCELERATOR IS RELEASED. Consequence Summary: IF THIS CONDITION WERE TO OCCUR, IT MAY BE NECESSARY TO DEPRESS THE CLUTCH AND APPLY THE BRAKE TO BRING THE VEHICLE TO A STOP. Corrective Summary: DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE THROTTLE BODY AND CHECK FOR PROPER OPERATION. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN APRIL 25, 2002. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT FORD AT 1-866-436-7332.

For 2003:

So far ... so good!

Looks like a total of 11½ recalls for Focus from its US debut.

That says it all. He has 66,000 miles of experience with a Focus and voted with his wallet and get another Focus.