Brakes yet again.

My '89 F150 6-cyl just had its brakes go out. While I was driving down the road, I could still use them, but I was smelling them burn. I stopped the truck, sniffed around, it seems to be coming from the front passenger side. I got back in, started out, and they went down to the floor.

I had known that the master cyl was bad, because I had no power. Could it have finally gone completely out? Is it more likely a brake caliper? I'm probably going to do them myself, because the overhead at the brake shop it too high.

Note: If you have read my previous post, you know that I just had both rear axles replaced. They did a rear brake job when they did that.

Reply to
Dan S.
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Dan S. brought next idea :

Assuming it needs the Power Assist Unit, does replacing it involve removing the dashboard or any other inhumane act?

Reply to
Dan S.

"Dan S." wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net...

Its hard to know what to tell you because your not clear in your descriptions of your problems.

IE you knew the master was bad because you had no power. Does that mean the truck wouldn't stop worth a darn with a low pedal possibly that fades, or the pedal was hard as a rock? Hard as a rock is not a master problem but a power booster issue. And it doesn't necessarily mean the booster is bad, it could be a bad hose, low vacuum, or the check valve at the booster is bad.

The "smell" coming from one wheel tends to say ether the caliper hung up, the brake hose went to pot, or a wheel bearing is goosed. A bad wheel bearing will let the wheel and rotor lean over and the brakes will be supporting the vehicle, they get hot and stink, hot enough the fluid boils, and regardless the caliper seals get cooked. You will also have a low pedal on intial application as the rotor leaning ovwer pushes the piston all the way back in the caliper bore. Then again the caliper slide could have hung up, or the caliper piston could be stuck which will also over heat the brakes to the point it could boil the brake fluid which will result in the no pedal scenario you described. A bad brake hose can do the same thing. They go bad and peal on the inside, this blocks the hose like a heart valve, fluid can flow in but it cant get out. Brakes over heat, fluid boils. Caliper gets cooked as well, and always replace hoses in pairs from the same manufacturer. There is a plus and minus spec on inner hose diameter, one brand may be to the plus, the other to the minus, and this can cause a pull on intial brake application. Not a real issue on dry roads, but a panick stop on slippery surface could cause a skid. The over heating can also result in piston seal failure which will also result in no brake pedal, but the front brake resovoir of the master will be empty, thats the larger one. The smaller one is for the rear brakes, . I'll get greif here, but replace calipers in pairs, and replace the caliper hard ware. Myself I go with loaded calipers, they come with everything. Raybesto's has some really good ones, NAPA's arent bad ether. Autozones Durastop suck. Another thing to keep in mind, Fords have two calipers that are the same except for piston material. The standard has the "plastic" pistons, the "police" have steel pistons. The police style cause less issues than the standard and cost about the same. There is a difference in the pads, the clip on the inner pad is different between the two styles of calipers, other wise they are the same. And under no circumstances mix the two styles on the same axle unless you like going for wild rides, and love brakes that pull weird when they get hot.

If you think the master is leaking unbolt it from the booster and pull it foreword, do you see brake fluid, or is there a trail down the booster from the bottom of the master?

On replacing the booster, not a hard job its a nut and bolt thing, one vacuum line, remove the master, under the dash four bolts hold the booster to the fire wall.

Whitelightning

Reply to
Whitelightning

Whitelightning pretended :

I found this article that helps, although it's for a '74 Dodge.

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You've got me worried about the wheel bearing breaking now.

But, when I said it had no power, the brakes were hard as a rock from the day I got it. Now, I'm hoping it's just the power assist.

Is there a relatively easy way to check if the bearing is broken. The wheel doesn't seem to be leaning.

Reply to
Dan S.

I agree calper likely stuck. I had one stick on me once and rotor got so hot it turned blue when it cooled. Stunk big time too. If it gets hot enough it can cause seals in caliper to fail and then pressure is lost and braking power is compromised.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

Reply to
SnoMan

SnoMan expressed precisely :

I can pump them back up (but, of course they end up losing pressure again). Is that symptomatic of the seals failing? Also, when I went out there a few minutes ago, they had some pressure. I don't know if that's caused by them cooling or what.

I have to take the truck to my mom's tomorrow because our lovely residential community doesn't like people working on rusty old trucks (or any other car) in their driveways. I plan on driving slow and pumping the brakes. It's about a 2-mile drive through town.

Reply to
Dan S.

I'm sorry, but this is one of those things where you are asking far too generalized of a question. I am having a very difficult time shaking the feeling that, if you gotta ask maybe you should not be doing the work.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

Jeff Strickland laid this down on his screen :

Well, there are jobs I won't tackle. But brakes, I've always had pretty good luck with ... now wheel bearing ... never tried.

Reply to
Dan S.

when seals fail, fluid leaks out It sounds like you boiled the brake fluid which puts a ton of air in the brake lines.

If the brakes aren't right, you have no business nor right endangering my life by driving it on public roads. If you hurt or kill someone and I were to be sitting on a jury at your trial, I would vote to hang you by your short hairs till the ravens plucked the meat from your bones. I have no sympathy for people who knowingly drive unsafe vehicles on public roads, none at all. Think of what would happen if some kid bolted out in front of you chasing a ball, do you really want to live with that your whole life?

Whitelightning

Reply to
Whitelightning

You have a point but if he droves slow (under 20 MPH) and his emergency brake in functional (it does not depend on fluid) and you are carefull, this can be safely done for his needs. HIghspeed travel and/or over a longer distance would be a different matter.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

Reply to
SnoMan

Whitelightning used his keyboard to write :

The good news is, I got in the truck this morning and they were almost back to normal. From this, I'm assuming that is was just a stuck caliper. There does seems to be some mushyness and a little pull to the left which leads me to believe there is some air in the line like you and others said there would be.

The bad news, I still needs a new power assist and have to bleed them and the lugs look ugly and rusty.

But, considering what it could have been, I consider myself blessed.

Reply to
Dan S.

The more comments I read, the more convinced I am that you should let somebody else do this work for you.

The master cylinder is the reason for the pedal fade. The MC has chambers inside, and a piston connected to your foot, and seals where the piston goes from one chamber into another. The seals are failing, and brake fluid can pass through them, causing your foot to drop to the floor the longer you hold the pedal down. You pump the pedal and it comes back up, this is classic MC failure. In this sort of leak, there is no fluid lost to the outside -- you will not be able to see fluid visible in the area around the MC.

You should drive to your Mom's house in mid day, that way you won't hit Paris or Lindsay as they drive home drunk ...

The MC does not account for the stench you reported, that is caused by something different.

You _could_ have a leaky brake cylinder (drum brakes) or a leaky caliper (disc brakes). Pumping hot brake fluid onto the hot rotors would stink, and braking would be difficult at best -- brake fluid is a bit of a lubricant, and brakes do not like to be lubricated. (Brake fluid is not a very good lubricant, but even a shitty lubricant on the brakes is never good.) If you have a leak at a cylinder or caliper, it ought to be visible from the outside -- fluid ought to be present on the inside of the rim(s).

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

Jeff Strickland used his keyboard to write :

I figrd it owt mayn. But thayx

Reply to
Dan S.

Emergency Brake? Anyone that calls the "PARKING" brake an "emergency" brake and advocates using it as the primary brake on public roads is a retard who SHOULD NOT be giving any advice on vehicles what so ever.

--------------------------- Snojob Follies: SBJ: Dumb brake question

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Reply to
Heatwave

We'll see ...

You may do the job perfectly, but that's not the impression I'm getting.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

Jeff Strickland used his keyboard to write :

I need air and the cool tools that one gets when one has air, but, it's not like I'm a hobbiest or anything. I have to use a lug wrench. I busted a lug stud off of my car when I did its brakes last. I was pulled the hub and then realized: "hey, it just taps out the backside."

I tend to give that impression, half-jokingly. Kind of in a self-deprecating way. It gets me benched in softball too. There is just a lot I have never done on a car. That's all. I'm not scared of it. Maybe there are times I should be a little more careful. But, where would be the fun in that?

Reply to
Dan S.

Do you need me to 'splain you how to bench bleed the Master Cylinder? I'll be happy to share if you are not sure what it is or how to do it. I take a while in the explanation, so I'm not gonna give it if it isn't needed.

It really is a very important part of changing the MC ...

And, you need to buy the Bench Bleed Kit from the store where you get the MC.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

I guess you never had to use one as such huh. WHile it is considered a parking brake its main function to to provide some form of limited braking backup in the event of main system falure. In about 40 years of driving it has saved my butt a few times.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

Reply to
SnoMan

I'm glad I don't ride around in your cars. In 40+ years of driving, I've only lost brakes once -- a brake line was ripped out of a caliper by a branch.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

No because unlike you I KNOW how to service my brakes and I DO NOT allow cars to leave the shop when I know their braking system pose a danger! Doing so would not only be stupid but AGAINST THE LAW.

Let me restate that you are a RETARD WHO SHOULD NOT BE GIVING ADVICE ON BRAKES! Let alone be allowed on the road! Your brake failures are no doubt the results of your inability to service or maintain your brakes! Your advice has been called dangerous multiple times. The very admission of needing to use the PARKING brake to save your butt is exactly what we have been warning people of! We don't need Bubba's like you in the newsgroups.

--------------------------- Snojob Follies: SBJ: Dumb brake question

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Reply to
Heatwave

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